sorcerer -> lore master

[Allegro]

I would like to play a sorcerer that becomes a lore master. So the sorcerer has the pesky problem of only having knowledge arcana on the list of class skills. So I have come up with 2 alternatives playing a human with one level of marshal for the class knowledge skills and the able learner feat or taking the education feat from Eberron. I like the Determined Caster and Motivate Dexterity minor auras. I’m having a hard time deciding between loosing a caster level and taking the education feat. Any opinions or options out there except the obvious play a wizard?

Thanks,

 

[freefall]

You would lose a caster level (which would hurt a lot for a sorcerer) but if you are human you might want to think about taking 3 levels of human paragon, you get the skills prereq covered, plus an extra feat, a +2 stat bump, some nice hit points and skill points.

Alternativly some prestige classes (like elemental savant ) gets you k(something)
which you could build up to 10 levels in 2 levels (assuming int 14, human)

 

[FalcWP]

Opinions? Umm... think long and hard about this? Even if you take all three Divination cantrips, you still need to pick up four more divinations, including one third level one. If you enter Loremaster as soon as possible (level 7), you'll have, at most, 10 spells known above first level (7 if you multiclass). 40% of your spells as divination would be tough as a sorcerer, I think, although it depends on the campaign. The one consolation is that you can do a lot with your other six (or, shudder, three) spells, since you'll have a nice selection of metamagic feats, but...

Personally, I'd suck it up and go the multiclass route. A 12 Intelligence Human can get 10 ranks in Knowledge (local) with a single level of Rogue at any point level seven or higher; if you've been investing cross-class, you shouldn't have a problem with any class you choose. Lots of classes have a knowledge skill and can offer you *something*; Monk if you have a decent Wisdom, Bard, two levels of Paladin, cleric, ranger, druid... there are plenty of options. They're not very good, since you're losing the caster level(s), but...

One option, though it will cost you a caster level, is a Sorcerer 5/Rogue 1/Unseen Seer 4/Loremaster 10 (mix Loremaster and Unseen Seer however you like - this just maximizes Loremaster levels). Unseen Seer is in Complete Mage, focuses on divinations, and has all Knowledge skills as class skills (with lots of skill points). Even gives you a free metamagic feat (Silent Spell) and the ability to add divinations to your spell list from *any* class list. Note - you'll need to spend cross-class ranks on Search, Spot, and Hide as a Sorcerer, and you'll need to be an intelligent human (like... 16 intelligence) to pull it off with one level of Rogue. Sorcerer 3/Rogue 2 is probably easier.

 

[amethal]

The Dwarf racial substitution level for sorcerer has knowledge (dungeoneering) as a class skill (races of stone).

The apprentice (spellcaster) feat from DMG II gives you a knowledge skill as a class skill

There's some Eberron sorcerer alternative class faetures in a recent Dragon whch gives you a knowledge class skill.

 

[Thanee]

Sorcerer 6 / random arcane PrC 2 / Loremaster should also work for the Knowledge Skills without losing caster level, assuming you are human with a 14 Int. A good and possibly fitting one would be the Mage of the Arcane Order, I think.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Jack Simth]

Sorcerer 6 / random arcane PrC 2 / Loremaster should also work for the Knowledge Skills without losing caster level, assuming you are human with a 14 Int. A good and possibly fitting one would be the Mage of the Arcane Order, I think.

Bye
Thanee

You could do that with Sorcerer-5/Mage of the Arcane Order-2/Loremaster-X if you have a high enough Int (14 or better as a human, if you take Knoweledge(Something) cross-class before Loremaster; 16 or better if you don't - you have to continue your Knoweledge(Arcana) up through your PrC levels, after all).

Mage of the Arcane Order does, technically, permit you to cast quite a few different divinations... some of which are 3rd+... which (unless your DM quite reasonably house-rules otherwise) means you are "Able to cast seven different divination spells" quite a few of which are 3rd level, even if you don't actually take any as spells known.

Honestly, I am personally of the opinion that Mage of the Arcane Order is in the top 10 of "Best PrC's for a spellcasting Sorcerer".

 

[Thanee]

You could do that with Sorcerer-5/Mage of the Arcane Order-2/Loremaster-X if you have a high enough Int (14 or better as a human, if you take Knoweledge(Something) cross-class before Loremaster; 16 or better if you don't - you have to continue your Knoweledge(Arcana) up through your PrC levels, after all).

Right, didn't know off-hand whether it was 2nd- or 3rd-level spells you needed... then Sor5/MotAO2/LM would work well.

Mage of the Arcane Order does, technically, permit you to cast quite a few different divinations... some of which are 3rd+... which (unless your DM quite reasonably house-rules otherwise) means you are "Able to cast seven different divination spells" quite a few of which are 3rd level, even if you don't actually take any as spells known.

I doubt that would be allowed by any reasonable DM, though.

Honestly, I am personally of the opinion that Mage of the Arcane Order is in the top 10 of "Best PrC's for a spellcasting Sorcerer".

Most definitely. It's a bit too good for a Sorcerer, actually, IMHO.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Jack Simth]

Right, didn't know off-hand whether it was 2nd- or 3rd-level spells you needed... then Sor5/MotAO2/LM would work well.

It's 2nd. A Sorcerer or Bard can qualify for MotAO as early as a Wizard can. Wizard has an easier time of it, though (costs two feats for a Wizard, and the Wizard has bonus feats to spend on it, while it costs three feats for a Bard or Sorcerer (the third being Arcane Preparation) - a Human or Strongheart Halfling can qualify normally at 5th to take a level of MotAO at 6th, any other race needs to squeeze an extra feat from somewhere - flaws, say; any Wizard can qualify for MotAO and have a feat or two left over).

I doubt that would be allowed by any reasonable DM, though.

There's varying shapes of reasonableness. In many (not all) campaigns, you can qualify for a feat by means of a magic item that boosts you to where you qualify (strength 13 for Power Attack, say) and you're explicitly unable to use a feat that you've lost a prerequisite for (strength damaged for Power Attack, say). If it's your normal state that matters for such things, the Fighter shouldn't lose access to Power Attack when hit by a Sudden Maximized Ray of Enfeeblement that drops the Fighter's Strength below that required Strength-13 (this can be done at 1st by a dedicated Wizard or Sorcerer - if the Fighter has a Strength score under 19 beforehand at 1st level, no more Power Attack for the duration). RAW, the Sudden Maximized Ray of Enfeeblement will remove the Str-18 Fighter's access to Power Attack for the duration. A magical effect outside the fighter removes access to the feat.

How much different is using a magical effect outside the character - that he paid class levels for (never mind that other than the lack of familiar advancement, MotAO levels are strictly better than Sorcerer levels once you get past the pre-requisites; almost any full caster PrC is) - to qualify for something all that much different?

Degrees of reasonableness. A DM could quite reasonably rule that because the Spellpool comes from outside the Sorcerer, it doesn't qualify. A DM could equally reasonably rule that for a Wizard to take Loremaster levels, the Wizard must have Spell Mastery for seven different divination spells, one of which is 3rd or higher (otherwise, the Wizard can only cast them through the use of a spellbook - which is outside the Wizard); and for any PrC, really, that requires you "know" a certain number of spells, or a certain level of spells, or certain specific spells.

Most definitely. It's a bit too good for a Sorcerer, actually, IMHO.

Bye
Thanee

In general, nearly any full spellcasting PrC is ... but most are more valuable for the Wizard than the Sorcerer.

 

[Corsair]

Most definitely. It's a bit too good for a Sorcerer, actually, IMHO.

Which is a problem with the sorcerer, not the PrCs.

 

[FalcWP]

A DM could equally reasonably rule that for a Wizard to take Loremaster levels, the Wizard must have Spell Mastery for seven different divination spells, one of which is 3rd or higher (otherwise, the Wizard can only cast them through the use of a spellbook - which is outside the Wizard); and for any PrC, really, that requires you "know" a certain number of spells, or a certain level of spells, or certain specific spells.

Not to split hairs, but the Wizard would only need to have Spell Mastery for six spells. Wizards can always prepare Read Magic.