D&D 5E Spell Creation System

[CapnZapp]

If you're designing a spell creation system, you should disregard spells like Fireball and Lightning Bolt. The designers have stated that these were made more powerful for their level than they should be due to their iconic status.

This. It's perhaps the most direct example of what I had in mind when I wrote previously that any balanced system will be able to create lots of mediocre spells that can't compete with the blue- and gold-rated spells of the PHB.



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[CapnZapp]

So stick with the general example of spells, and the DMG guidelines. If you're worried that your new spells don't compete with Fireball, remove the PHB Fireball et al from your game and recreate it using your/the DMG's system.

Yep, one solution is to remove the PHB spells and rely only on self-researched spells.

I remember an old spell creation system from someone here at EN Publishing, possibly Ranger Wickett, that did just that. That is, first present the formulas, and supplement that by a menu of pre-made spells. These spells would reuse the PHB names to make it easy on players, but would all be created from scratch using the system.

Sorry can't remember what it was called. But I recommend checking it up if you're interested; it was for 3rd edition but most principles are the same for 5th.



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[CapnZapp]

As a player, sure, I would use something like this if it helped me shore up a character concept. As a DM, I'm extremely averse to giving spellcasters more goodies when I already regard them as being generally better than non-spellcasters. It won't really break the game, I just don't want to rub the thief's nose in the dirt.

If the majority of a campaign is spent at levels 1-12, and you allow feats, you can safely disregard this advice. Casters really only race ahead of martials when they get access to three things:
1) high spell save DCs
2) plenty of spell slots to spare
3) access to high level spells (6th to 9th)

Not coincidentally, tier III is when all these three things comes together. ☺

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[CapnZapp]

Seriously? Just... *headdesk*.

Never gonna get that evergreen edition with design decisions like that. Yeesh.

Since these decisions has stayed unchanged since first edition forty years ago, I'd be careful throwing "evergreen" around...

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[Morrus]

Yep, one solution is to remove the PHB spells and rely only on self-researched spells.

I remember an old spell creation system from someone here at EN Publishing, possibly Ranger Wickett, that did just that. That is, first present the formulas, and supplement that by a menu of pre-made spells. These spells would reuse the PHB names to make it easy on players, but would all be created from scratch using the system.

Sorry can't remember what it was called. But I recommend checking it up if you're interested; it was for 3rd edition but most principles are the same for 5th.

Elements of Magic.

http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/2554/Elements-of-Magic-Revised?it=1

For 3.5 and Pathfinder, and also powers the magic system in WOIN. Tweaking it for 5E wouldn't be difficult; we might even do it one day, if we have time.

 

[CapnZapp]

Elements of Magic.

http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/2554/Elements-of-Magic-Revised?it=1

For 3.5 and Pathfinder, and also powers the magic system in WOIN. Tweaking it for 5E wouldn't be difficult; we might even do it one day, if we have time.

Thanks, that's the one! And the writer's name (Ryan Nock) did consist of two words where the first begins with an "R"

I didn't know it survived until this day - that it's used in a contemporary system is great since that means more feedback. *thumbs up*

 

[Sunseeker]

Since these decisions has stayed unchanged since first edition forty years ago, I'd be careful throwing "evergreen" around...

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Don't need to tell me that. WotC's the one looking to create an evergreen system.

 

[Nevvur]

If the majority of a campaign is spent at levels 1-12, and you allow feats, you can safely disregard this advice. Casters really only race ahead of martials when they get access to three things:
1) high spell save DCs
2) plenty of spell slots to spare
3) access to high level spells (6th to 9th)

Not coincidentally, tier III is when all these three things comes together. ☺

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That hasn't been my experience. At my tables, the power differential becomes noticeable around level 5, and substantial around level 9.

I'm looking at this from a system-wide perspective, not strictly in terms of DPR. Versatility is a hard to quantify but no less important factor in my assessment of personal PC power, and spellcasters simply have a bigger bag of tricks than martial classes. Martial classes tend to be better at single target damage and personal damage mitigation, but that's about it. Spellcasters can do those things equally well or better if they build toward it, and still have options non-spellcasters will never get. In addition, more skills key off Int/Wis/Cha than Str/Dex, granting Spellcasters an edge independent of other class features.

Briefly, spellcasters consistently do more to drive the success of parties in my games than non-spellcasters. The only way I can think of to bring them into balance in this respect is to run a combat-centric game featuring primarily solo monsters. Not really my kind of game.

This is before acknowledging the reality that most DMs aren't running the 6-8 encounters per adventuring day upon which class balance is predicated. I don't say this as a strike against the OP's concept. In fact, it's good design to run with the assumptions baked into the math. The reality, however, is that implementing this system at most tables will exacerbate an existing imbalance.

 

[Morrus]

And the writer's name (Ryan Nock) did consist of two words where the first begins with an "R"

His username here is Rangerwicket, like you said.

 

[CapnZapp]

Lol. Sometimes I impress even myself