Spell-like abilities and prestige class pre-reqs

[luckystrike23]

Do spell like abilities count towards spell casting requirements for prestige classes?

the character in question wants to use their spell like abilities (which are cast as a sorcerer of their character level) and their cleric levels to qualify earlier for the mystic theurge.

 

[The Souljourner]

That's really up to the DM. And personally, I wouldn't let them do it. The prerequisite is there for a reason, you're supposed to need at least 3 levels of both a divine and an arcane casting class. In my opinion they should just spell stuff like that out "Requires 3 levels of divine casting and 3 levels of arcane casting" instead of this really stupid "able to cast 2nd level arcane spells".

Anyway, that's neither here nor there. It's up to you, and the ultimate question is "will this be unbalanced?" I think the answer is yes.

-The Souljourner

 

[Vaen]

No.

Being able to emulate specific spells through a spell-like ability is different than having "the ability to cast 2nd-level arcane/divine spells". I agree with Souljourner in the end, though: Will this be unbalancing?

 

[CRGreathouse]

In my opinion they should just spell stuff like that out "Requires 3 levels of divine casting and 3 levels of arcane casting" instead of this really stupid "able to cast 2nd level arcane spells".

What about bards, rangers, paladins, and the like?

 

[Li Shenron]

Anyway, that's neither here nor there. It's up to you, and the ultimate question is "will this be unbalanced?" I think the answer is yes.

How can you say it would be unbalancing? At least in this case, the character would not benefit at all from the +1 spellcasting of Mystic Theurge for his spell-like abilities, except the increase in caster level.

On the other hand, I agree that the rules do not allow to use a spell-like ability to fulfill a spellcasting requirement: it may not be feasible if the requisite says "cast 2nd level divine spells", since spell-like abilities are not inherently divine or arcane, nor they have a level. (They just have a caster level and a reference ability for DC.)

Some PrCl like Thaumaturgist instead have requisites like "cast spell X", which may be more complicated. But I still think it's easier to rule spell-like abilities out.

 

[FrankTrollman]

Interesting note:

I brought this up on the WotC boards in regards to the Geomancer - namely that as written you could qualify as a Tiefling with 3 Cleric levels.

Rich Redman gave out the little dropping mouth smiley and said that that was an oversight - and he promised that they would go about reworking the way they wrote prestige class requirements.

As it so happens, they haven't seemed to rewrite the prestige class requirements at all - although they have interestingly enough reworked the way most Spell-like abilities read.

So currently: if your spell-like ability still says "as a sorcerer of blah blah blah level" - you are good to go on class prereqs. If it says something like "the saves are charisma based" - then you are not.

Of course, the spirit of the rules would indicate that most spell-like abilities would not count for PrC requirements. Although on the other other hand - the spirit of the rules is that many creatures with spell-like abilities are magical and deserve to be able to directly expand those abilities.

It is currently a major problem that there aren't PrCs for increasing the power of creatures with Spell-like abilities. If a creature could be improved by adding a published PrC I'd certainly entertain letting them do it.

-Frank

 

[Li Shenron]

So currently: if your spell-like ability still says "as a sorcerer of blah blah blah level" - you are good to go on class prereqs. If it says something like "the saves are charisma based" - then you are not.

I certainly don't want to check all of them but I have the feeling that 3.5 exactly got rid of all the spell-like abilities worded "as a Sorc of x level" and changed them to just say the caster level and what the DC is based on. It is a good change!

 

[Thanee]

I guess that doesn't work, as spell-like abilities are not "spells cast" (and that's the requirement), or are they?

Bye
Thanee

 

[Li Shenron]

I guess that doesn't work, as spell-like abilities are not "spells cast" (and that's the requirement), or are they?

Bye
Thanee

Well, they are definitely the most similar thing to spells which is not a spell

They almost always replicate an existing spell effects.
They can be used in magic item creation in place of a spell.
They are subject to several restrictions (concentration, dispel, AoO, antimagic, spell resistance...).

But at the same time they don't have a "level", they don't require a minimum Int/Wis/Cha to be cast (...maybe 1?), they can't be countered, they have no components...

I found this in the monster section:

Spell-like abilities are magical and work just like spells (though they are not spells and so have no verbal, somatic, material, focus, or XP components).

edit: I am sure I have read that you can use a spell-like ability in item creation, but I can't find a quote! how could it be possible that I have made this up?

 

[Antoine]

edit: I am sure I have read that you can use a spell-like ability in item creation, but I can't find a quote! how could it be possible that I have made this up?

From 3.5 SRD, Magic Item Description section, Prerequisites :
A spell prerequisite may be provided by a character who has prepared the spell (or who knows the spell, in the case of a sorcerer or bard), or through the use of a spell completion or spell trigger magic item or a spell-like ability that produces the desired spell effect. For each day that passes in the creation process, the creator must expend one spell completion item or one charge from a spell trigger item if either of those objects is used to supply a prerequisite.[/QUOTE]


Hope this helps.