D&D 5E Spells: the Good, the Bad, and the Downright Orcish Grandmother

[Thank Dog]

Spare the Dying is definitely full of suck. Cantrip slots are not only precious but you can do far better than this weak-sauce one. If it was ranged and a bonus action, then it would be a good choice, but as touch and a full action, it's really just a waste of a cantrip slot.

 

[Cannyjiggit]

I think spare the dying is fine. A healing kit can do the same thing, but it costs money and has limited uses. Spare the dying can be cast at-will and doesn't cost money. A cleric with medicine can eventually do the same thing, but that costs a skill. I'd much rather give up a cantrip slot than a skill slot.

Pretty much any cleric should have +3 on the check at first level and even without medecine proficiency should hit 75% chance pretty easily. I also agree that medecine proficiency is compromised by the healers kit being an automatic success too but as with many skills, it may have suitable roleplay mileage for some characters.

The overpowered part in the playtest was the additional hitpoint which brought people back into the fight. If it was left as a bonus action to cast then I think it would be a great cantrip. The cash cost of a healers kit is negligible really and if you're needing more than 1 full kit for an adventure then something is going wrong somewhere (poor DM encounter building or as in the case with my party in the playtest, poor player tactics).

Maybe the real problem is with the healers kit as it seems to devalue both the spell and the medecine skill.

 

[Cannyjiggit]

Spare the Dying is definitely full of suck. Cantrip slots are not only precious but you can do far better than this weak-sauce one. If it was ranged and a bonus action, then it would be a good choice, but as touch and a full action, it's really just a waste of a cantrip slot.

I would say either of the two adjustments make it a useful cantrip, both makes it a must-have which probably means its a little too powerful again.

 

[Piratecat]

In my high-lvl game the other day, a wizard cast meteor swarm on top of an enemy's mansion, followed by earthquake to swallow the burning remains down into the earth. It was a stylish form of urban renewal. 30 seconds and boom, no more mansion.

 

[KarinsDad]

Spare the Dying is definitely full of suck. Cantrip slots are not only precious but you can do far better than this weak-sauce one. If it was ranged and a bonus action, then it would be a good choice, but as touch and a full action, it's really just a waste of a cantrip slot.

Agreed, because healing kits exist.


However, 5E seems to be about having at least the illusion of the threat of death. There is no threat of death if the PCs can just willy nilly stop death savings throws from range and with virtually no effort. I don't think that Spare the Dying should be changed, I think that healing kits should be changed.

As written, the main rules are: 1) Use healing magic (be that ranged or touch or potion), or 2) Use wisdom check touch, or 3) Use a healing kit touch, or 4) Cast Spare the Dying touch, or 5) Succeed on 3 death saving throws.

All of the touch options here run the risk of not being possible (out of range) or provoking OAs to accomplish.

In addition:

#1 uses up a resource (may use up an action)
#2 has a chance of failure and uses an action
#3 uses up a minor resource and uses an action, but has no chance of failure
#4 uses up a cantrip slot and uses an action, but has no chance of failure and does not use a resource
#5 is based on luck

All of these have Pros and Cons in some circumstances. And most of them all require using an action (except certain spells like Healing Word).

By removing the detriment of being touch and an action, Spare the Dying more or less becomes the primary solution of choice and is better as a cantrip than 3 of the other options. It makes death saving throws an extremely rare threat instead of an uncommon threat.


I actually think that WotC got this one partially right. Spare the Dying works for players who want a high guarantee of success without having to mess with keeping track of minor resources. If that is not your thing, then don't take the cantrip. I do think that #3 shouldn't exist. There should be no non-magical guarantee of success of saving a person's life. #3 is the reason people think that #4 sucks, but from a balance perspective, #4 is totally balanced.

#3 is way too cheap and because of that, #4 is way too expensive. I hope that WotC erratas this in one direction or the other.

 

[RotGrub]

The only type of spells the designers understood were damage dealing spells. Non-damage dealing spells were completely nerfed and only returned to the game for the sake of tradition.

I'm very close to adopting the 2e versions of several spells.

 

[Piratecat]

Rotgrub, I don't think I'd agree with that at all. Can you please give some examples?

 

[Chocolategravy]

However, 5E seems to be about having at least the illusion of the threat of death.

If you have the cash then you'd almost prefer them dead as Revivify will bring them back with 1 HP. The only downside of death is your magic items slide off you as they are no longer attuned. The fact that you kinda do prefer them dead is a bit of a problem. Maybe the Rez spells should also work on 0 HP characters, or things like Spare The Dying should bring them back to 1 HP. It seems like they really don't want a cantrip that can give healing while at the same time there are lots of things that can heal you on a trigger like killing an enemy.

 

[KarinsDad]

In my high-lvl game the other day, a wizard cast meteor swarm on top of an enemy's mansion, followed by earthquake to swallow the burning remains down into the earth. It was a stylish form of urban renewal. 30 seconds and boom, no more mansion.

Makes it a tad bit more difficult to loot the magic items and treasure.

 

[Mr Fixit]

If you have the cash then you'd almost prefer them dead as Revivify will bring them back with 1 HP.

So, 5E is the first edition that introduced the concept of clinical death, right?