Spiked Chain: The Ultimate Defenders Wep or Sir Not Appearing in the Edition?

[Ahglock]

You probably haven't run into this.

I wouldn't shed a single tear if I never saw a spiked chain again, in any edition.

I fail to see how that makes the spiked chain unbalanced. It makes some bad feat combinations possible in later books imbalanced, and a modified version of the spiked chain as the delivery system.

Its like calling what ever weapon is used in the wraithstrke combo of doom thing everyone is talking about unbalanced, when it was really wraithstrike and a couple of feats that play off it to well.

 

[fnwc]

I fail to see how that makes the spiked chain unbalanced. It makes some bad feat combinations possible in later books imbalanced, and a modified version of the spiked chain as the delivery system.

If you're keeping your campaign purely core, the Spiked Chain is definitely more under control.

However, it can threaten at 10' and 5' (or 15'/10' Enlarged - without having to take the Short Haft feat), is a light weapon, has special trip and disarm bonuses. I think in 3.0 it might have been a double weapon as well. This makes it it the single best reach weapon in the game.

What really makes the Spiked Chain good is the fact that every feat involving AoOs is a potential combo for this build. Of course, as a DM, you can restrict this but it becomes easier to just ban the Spiked Chain.

It can grind the game to a halt when an Enlarged Spiked Chain fighter wades into melee.

Just my opinion.

 

[hong]

If you're keeping your campaign purely core, the Spiked Chain is definitely more under control.

However, it can threaten at 10' and 5' (or 15'/10' Enlarged - without having to take the Short Haft feat), is a light weapon, has special trip and disarm bonuses. I think in 3.0 it might have been a double weapon as well. This makes it it the single best reach weapon in the game.

What really makes the Spiked Chain good is the fact that every feat involving AoOs is a potential combo for this build. Of course, as a DM, you can restrict this but it becomes easier to just ban the Spiked Chain.

It can grind the game to a halt when an Enlarged Spiked Chain fighter wades into melee.

Just my opinion.

I solved this problem by banning enlarge person.

Actually, no, I solved it by banning wizards. Enlarge just came with the territory.

 

[kennew142]

I solved this problem by banning enlarge person.

Actually, no, I solved it by banning wizards. Enlarge just came with the territory.

Enlarge Person was one of the those spells that I strongly discouraged. There are entirely too many issues involved with making a character larger (increased reach, increased damage die type, increased strength, increased bull rush, increased grapple, etc...). This was one of those spells that IMO should have been made higher level, or perhaps personal. But this wouldn't have thwarted its use by combat clerics.

In general, my players don't take spells/abilities/etc... that I disapprove of. I seldom have to ban anything. We call it the gentlefolks agreement. If they don't try to use it, neither do I.

 

[Shin Ji]

Enlarge Person was one of the those spells that I strongly discouraged. There are entirely too many issues involved with making a character larger (increased reach, increased damage die type, increased strength, increased bull rush, increased grapple, etc...). This was one of those spells that IMO should have been made higher level, or perhaps personal. But this wouldn't have thwarted its use by combat clerics.

In general, my players don't take spells/abilities/etc... that I disapprove of. I seldom have to ban anything. We call it the gentlefolks agreement. If they don't try to use it, neither do I.

Really? You saw Enlarge Person, with its 1 round casting time, as a major problem in your campaign? Worse than Color Spray?

My biggest issue with the spiked chain is that there is so little reason not to use it. However, that being said, it's one of the only ways to make a noncaster viable past low levels. Tripping is very situational past 8th level, since almost everything is stronger than you, bigger, and often more stable.

I look forward to 4e making all weapons useful, giving a reason to play a staff fighter, a spear fighter, a mace fighter, and that sort of thing. All that along with a major powerup for fighter-types should add up to more options.

Now you have the options of Greatsword, Guisarme, Longbow, and Spiked Chain, with a few others that you can really work at to make useful if you are so inclined.

 

[kennew142]

Really? You saw Enlarge Person, with its 1 round casting time, as a major problem in your campaign? Worse than Color Spray?

I will stand by my statement that Enlarge Person does entirely too much for a first level spell. However, it is the potions of EP (standard action to drink) that are worse.

As for Color Spray...

I have a 16th level sorcerer (in Living Arcanis) who will still whip out the Color Spray from time to time. 1 round of stunning (especially the dropped weapons) to every bad will save NPC I get inside a 30' cone (DC 18) doesn't half suck. If it works, its better than empowered Cone of Cold. Most fighter types can survive the latter, but being disarmed and inactive for an entire round of combat vs. my 16th level cohorts* companions is way better.

* I am a sorcerer, after all. Sometimes it seems like I'm 2-3 levels above the APL.

 

[Seule]

3) Reach Weapons: No AoO for closing into range to use a Halberd.

Technically, a halberd isn't a Reach weapon. It surprised me the first time I noticed it, too.

On topic, I discourage people from taking spiked chains in my campaigns, or at least I would if anyone showed interest.

--Seule

 

[variant]

I dislike the spiked chain. IMO it is neither cool, nor visually appealing. That said, it is a popular choice among players and should remain in the PHB for that reason.

The only reason it was popular was because it was entirely overpowered.

 

[Victim]

I wonder if groups banning/discouraging Spiked Chain are more likely to find single class fighters especially weak. Few other fighting styles derive as much synergy from the fighter's # of feats.

 

[HP Dreadnought]

I hope the spiked chain gets ambushed in an alley and dies a violent death before it ever makes it to 4th edition.

I don't so much care about the mechanics of it. . . its just the idea of the spiked chain sickens me. Fighters are supposed to use swords, hammers, and axes to crush and cleave their foes. . . not lash at them with overblown barbed wire. Well. . . maybe an elf might do something like that. . . but not a real fighter.