spiked chain -- would this work?

[SpikeyFreak]

Ah, I missed the 10 feet away part. That changes things a bit.

I would allow him to move more if I was in a lenient mood, because a 5' adjustment is different than a normal move, and if you say you are going to do a 5' step you can't move anymore in the round, and you can't go back and say that it wasn't a 5' step because that matters as far as full-attack partial-attack is concerned after the 5' adjustment step.

Make sense to anyone, or am I just rambling?

--Insane Spikey

 

[jontherev]

Ok, let's just respond to the original post...

See if I am correct in my thinking, here...

Theorize a 6th level fighter, with the feats of Exotic weapon (spiked chain) and Combat reflexes, standing 10 feet away from his opponent. The fighter readies an action that if any opponent approaches within 5 feet of him, he will make an attack and make a 5' step.

Ok. Why not ready for when he approaches within 10' instead of 5'?

said opponent moves in to attack. He takes an attack of opportunity from moving from the 10' range to the 5' range, then moves within 5'. The fighter's readied action kicks off at this time, he attacks once, then moves 5'. The opponent, who only has a melee weapon that reaches 5', cannot attack, because he has already moved where he intended to go, even though he had some movement left. (Let's hypothesize that he only moved 20 feet to get there).

Hmmm. It's debatable whether your AoO would go off. You're readying an attack at precisely the same time your AoO should go off. It would certainly be within a DM's right to say you get a regular attack, but no AoO. In any case, let's assume you DO get to AoO, then make your readied attack, then move 5'. You are now done and your foe has 10' of movement left (assuming he had 30' originally). He then moves 5' (has 5' more left) and attacks you.

Is this the correct sequence of events? Could the opponent move further if he still had movement left, or must he take another action for the round? Does he get off his attack this round still, or does the readied action mean the fighter was already out of the way, and therefore cannot?

I am not asking for DM ruled opinions, but the letter of the rules in this instance.

Summary:

1) Is a combatant's move completely declared at his time of move, or can be "move a little more"?
2) Can a combatant change his action if a readied action spoils what he planned to do?

1)No, just like in real life, you can change where you walk/run on a whim. Find a rule somewhere that says differently. One exception, is charging, where you can only go in one direction unless you have a feat that allows directional change.

2)Yes. For example, let's say a rogue takes a move equivalent action to move up to a fighter. The fighter had previously readied a grapple. He succeeds, and now the rogue may use his dagger to attack the fighter, or attempt an escape artist check or grapple check to escape the fighter's grasp.

 

[dcollins]

I'd let the opponent continue to move, as long as its within his/her movement rate.

I agree with CG, as well.

Arguments over this question keep coming up; there is no absolute ruling on it in the core rulebooks. The "yes, go move some more" camp generally relies on the spirit of the "full attack" language (PH p. 124) in that you can start in on an action before entirely defining what the scope of it will be by the end.

 

[SpikeyFreak]

Re: Re: spiked chain -- would this work?

1)No, just like in real life, you can change where you walk/run on a whim. Find a rule somewhere that says differently. One exception, is charging, where you can only go in one direction unless you have a feat that allows directional change.

Okay, now what if the character had declared that it was a 5' step and was going to attack with a ranged weapon?

This would have prevented the AoO from the other character.

The the other character moves back.

Can the attacker move an additional 5' to make his attack? He did a 5' step which circumvented an AoO. If the fact that it was a 5' step changes now, do you go back and do the AoO?

Do you see what I'm getting at? It's not quite as black-and-white as you make it out to be.

--Diplomatic Spikey

 

[Grendel]

This seems very simple to me, and occurs frequently in out game.

1. The Spike chain wielder readies his attack
2. The attacker moves in triggering an attack of oppertunity
3. This also triggers the readied action of the SCW. He attacks and steps back. This coincidently moves him just before the attacker in the initiative order.
4. The attack who was 5' away from the SCW is now 10' and is in the middle of his action.
5. The attacker has 2 options.
5.a. continue his movement if it is sufficent and attack.
5.b. complete the movement portion of his round and take a standard action to ready an attack against the SCW at his earliest opportunity. Then he immediately takes his 5' step and attacks the spiked chain wielder.

Or if they are both sissy-girl fighters
the Attacker could stop his movement 15' away from the SCW, realizing that the SCW has prepared an attack, and instead ready his own attack against the spike chain wielder (as soon as he comes within range).

This accomplishes two things.
1. he gets his 5' step and attack
2. he moves infront of the SCW in the initiative order preventing the SCW from "jerking his chain" so-to-speak.

 

[jontherev]

Re: Re: Re: spiked chain -- would this work?

Okay, now what if the character had declared that it was a 5' step and was going to attack with a ranged weapon?

This would have prevented the AoO from the other character.

The the other character moves back.

Can the attacker move an additional 5' to make his attack? He did a 5' step which circumvented an AoO. If the fact that it was a 5' step changes now, do you go back and do the AoO?

Do you see what I'm getting at? It's not quite as black-and-white as you make it out to be.

--Diplomatic Spikey

I see your point. The original poster was confusing. At first, the foe was 10' away, then he assumed he had moved 20'. Which is it?

If he's 10' away, you need to realize that it is obvious when someone readies an attack against you. You would also be aware that he'll probably swing at you (AoO). So, what would be better is to just back up and use a ranged weapon and make him waste his turn.

 

[Xahn'Tyr]

it is obvious when someone readies an attack against you

Could you post the rule for that? It would certainly be useful were it true.

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

Could you post the rule for that? It would certainly be useful were it true.

I'd have a PC make a Sense Motive check to figure out whether an opponent seemed like they were readying an attack. It shouldn't be too tough - I'd probably make it DC 10+opponents level.

 

[Henry]

I'm sorry if my original post was confusing. I'll try to elaborate more.

The Spiked chain wielder (we'll call him Bill) has just readied an action, that if someone moves within 5 feet of him, he takes a 5' step back and attacks.

The Opponent, wielding a longsword (we'll call him Al), starts from 20' away and makes a move of 20' toward Bill. During this move, he will pass THROUGH Bill's threat range, when he moves from the 10' square to the 5' square. At this time, Al triggers an attack of opportunity from Bill. (Remember, the AoO happens when he LEAVES the square - "through" or "out of"). Then, he moves 5' away from Bill. Bill's readied action then triggers, meaning he attacks once, then can take a 5' step away from Al.

1) Can Al move 5 more feet towards Bill before making an attack?
2) If he cannot, or even if he does, could he change his action (say, to cast a spell defensively?)

I just thought of a third question:

3) If Bill has combat reflexes and a high enough DEX, COULD he get another Attack of Opportunity on Al if Al decides to move that extra 5 feet to him to make an attack?

Remember, I'm looking for book answers here, not DM spot rulings.

 

[Locpik]

1)I am not sure about the AoO. If he is 10' out, he would only be making a 5' step, which if I am not mistaken,does not provoke an AoO.

2) I think you can only prepare 1 partial action if you are readied, a move + attack would be two. Now you could say your 5' step back is your free action, but it is not your turn in the round, and again I may be mistaken, but you can only take a free action on your turn in the round.