D&D 3E/3.5 Stacking Bonuses in 3.5

[William Ronald]

I know that one of the issues that I am most interested in about 3.5 is how stacking bonuses work. For example, how high of a bonus can a magic item add to a skill check? Or to initiative. What sorts of bonuses work together and which do not?

Also, should there be a limit to how high bonuses can go? I know that different DMs can take different approaches but what do the rules and the errata say?

 

[Darkness]

Hey there, William... How are you, my friend?

Now... For one, there are now some additional practical limits.

For example, skill bonuses got a lot more expensive in 3.5.
Further, stat-buff spells have been reduced to 1/60 of their previous duration.

 

[William Ronald]

Hello, Darkness! I am doing pretty well currently. Thanks. It is good to hear form you.

Thanks for keeping the boards intact while Eric and Morrus are in Indianapolis.

I think the practical limits and the reduced buff times do help. However, I wonder if there is something that effectively says: "This is as good as a non-divine being can boost a skill on a long lasting basis."

Armor class and initiative are also two areas that in 3.0 seemed to be fairly easy to reach almost stratospheric levels.

 

[Darkness]

However, I wonder if there is something that effectively says: "This is as good as a non-divine being can boost a skill on a long lasting basis."

I see... A limit kinda like in Mutants & Masterminds, where the total sum of all bonuses can't exceed a certain amount (which, in M&M, depends on your level). Hm. I haven't noticed anything like that in 3.5.
Hm. Bonuses from bows and arrows doesn't seem to stack any more, but apart from that...

Armor class and initiative are also two areas that in 3.0 seemed to be fairly easy to reach almost stratospheric levels.

Not sure about initiative (even in 3.0, most of my characters didn't have extremely high ratings), but pushing AC up to the sky theoretically still seems to be possible.

There's at least one change that limits some AC maximums, though: Duelists used to be able to add their entire Int bonus to AC when unarmored. In 3.5, though, this bonus is limited by their level. (E.g., a duelist with an Int bonus of +4 can't apply his full bonus before reaching 4th level in Duelist.) This was probably changed to prevent people from taking just 1 level in Duelist, gaining a significant AC bonus from it, and then moving on to other classes...

 

[William Ronald]

Darkness wrote:
There's at least one change that limits some AC maximums, though: Duelists used to be able to add their entire Int bonus to AC when unarmored. In 3.5, though, this bonus is limited by their level. (E.g., a duelist with an Int bonus of +4 can't apply his full bonus before reaching 4th level in Duelist.) This was probably changed to prevent people from taking just 1 level in Duelist, gaining a significant AC bonus from it, and then moving on to other classes...

That was one of the oddities of 3.0, IMHO. Essentially, many players just taking a single level of a class for a bonus. I think some limitations make sense, as one cannot completely master a fighting style or a profession in just a single level. (This was a problem in the core rules with the 3.0 ranger. If he had been any more frontloaded, he would have tipped over. )

 

[William Ronald]

Darkness,

I found this on Olgar Shiverstone's document on changes from 3.0 to 3.5. (If you don't have it yet, download it from the link on the front page.)

Skill bonus items are going up to bonus squared, times 100 gp. Boots of elvenkind, for instance, now grant a +5 bonus and cost 2,500. That bonus is much more in line with the boots' low cost. (One could easily imagine an improved version that gave a +10 bonus for 10k, or even a +15 bonus for 22,500.) The ring of jumping's bonus went down to +5 for 2500, but there's also an "improved" version that grants +10 for 10k.

So, now a +30 skill bonus item will cost 90,000 gold pieces. I know that for items in the ELH, the cost multiplier is increased by a factor of 10. I seem to recall that for skill bonus items, the g.p. cost for portion above the +30 bonus was increased by 10. If this is the case, then the cost for a +60 skill bonus item is 990,000 g.p. (Base cost of 90,000 g.p., If the formula works for skill bonus items in the same way as it does for ability enhancing items, then the formula becomes the total bonus squared multiplied by 1,000. Thus, a +60 skill bonus item would cost (60 x 60 x 100 x10)=3,600,000 g.p.

Does anyone know what formula is correct?

To me, increasing the cost of skill bonus items was a wise move in 3.5. I think that a character's skill ranks should be the foundation of how well a character can perform a task. Magic items should be at best strong ehnancements to a skill, not a replacement for good skill ranks. (I have learned not to rely too heavily on magic items.)

 

[William Ronald]

Similarly, I think that the change Darkness mentioned to the AC bonus of duelists should apply to other bonuses gained from a prestige class. It tends to encourage players to pursue such classes for their characters beyond one level, as well as making sure that such bonuses are earned.

 

[Darkness]

Similarly, I think that the change Darkness mentioned to the AC bonus of duelists should apply to other bonuses gained from a prestige class.

Agreed. Like the Mystic Theurge, for example (Cha bonus to AC when unarmored from level 1 on; Magic of Faerun).

And I've been wondering about epic skill bonus items as well...

 

[Remathilis]

Agreed. Like the Mystic Theurge, for example (Cha bonus to AC when unarmored from level 1 on; Magic of Faerun).

And I've been wondering about epic skill bonus items as well...

I think you mean the Mystic Wanderer, the Mystic Theurge is the uber caster from the revised DMG.

 

[frankthedm]

the duelist fix is ok, but using wis would of been better to keep it from being stacked with the monks ability.