Stalker0's Guide to Anti-Grind

[0-hr]

This is great advice for removing the "Grind" (slugging it out after the fun part of the fight is done) but is there any consensus on how to reduce the combat time (as in number of rounds) for the system in general?

We're only getting one or two fight done each session, which doesn't lead to much plot advancement. I saw someone mention reducing creature hp by 25% and increasing their damage by 33%. Is that a good place to start if we want shorter fights, but with the same challenge?

We're using a premade adventure, so a simple conversion formula like this will work out better than trying to redesign the encounters completely.

 

[hailstop]

I've dropped hp to 75% and upped monster damage by 1/2 per level. I'm not sure that's high enough though.

 

[AngryMojo]

This is great advice for removing the "Grind" (slugging it out after the fun part of the fight is done) but is there any consensus on how to reduce the combat time (as in number of rounds) for the system in general?

Speeding up stuff in 4e isn't particularly difficult, you just need to make sure that both you and your players are properly prepared.

For players: If everyone knows their character and has proper cards printed up with to hit and damage numbers, I consider the players properly prepared.
For DM: I print out all my encounters on separate paper before the session so I have no flipping in books to do during encounters. As long as I get that right, I consider myself properly prepared.

In addition, my group has gotten into the habit of language. When I roll an attack, I say "20 vs. AC." The response is "hit" or "miss, and then I'll say "8 necrotic damage" and allow them to apply resistances and vulnerabilities as appropriate. We also have markers for Bloodied and all the other major condition, so I don't really have to ask many questions about the status of the fight and neither do my players. You'd be amazed how much time is saved by playing efficiently. I've made it through four hard encounters in one three-hour session before.

 

[amysrevenge]

When I roll an attack, I say "20 vs. AC."

[sarcasm]

I can't see how that is any faster than "OK, I rolled a 9. Let's see... my Strength mod is +9. Wait, does that already include half my level? Oh, yeah, it does. Umm... it's a +2 weapon, and the proficiency is +3. I'm flanking, so that's +2. Do I get another +2 because he's prone? No? Ok. Did I count the proficiency bonus yet? Yes? Ok. So, that's 22. What do you mean, it's 25? I just added it up!"

[/sarcasm]

 

[AngryMojo]

[sarcasm]Yadda yadda yadda [/sarcasm]

You joke, but you'd be amazed how many people insist "It can't save that much time!"

 

[amysrevenge]

Also, nothing drives me quite as bonkers as someone looking up in the PH, at the table, on their turn, the power they are currently using. Exception: I'll let it pass for a level 1 PC, or a PC who has just gained a level and doesn't have the very newest power written out or on a card yet.

Maybe it's because I take so much joy in preparing my characters ahead of time, that I fail to recognize that some people out there might look at that level of preparation as a chore rather than a treat.

 

[0-hr]

The individual turns are going fast enough. Our problem is that there are just SO MANY of them. The sheer number of rounds it takes to complete a fight is keeping us from progressing the story much, even given a 5 hour stint at the gaming table. My guess is that some combination of decreased enemy hit point would work - but it needs to be balanced by increased enemy output in order to keep things equally challenging. If others have been through the same thing, I'd like to benefit from their experience.

 

[MichaelK]

I don't play 4th edition, but I'm bookmarking this in case I ever do and to recommend to friends.

That is some very thorough advice and from what little I know of 4th edition it looks very solid and accurate.

Thankyou for this great resource.

 

[Nibelung]

The individual turns are going fast enough. Our problem is that there are just SO MANY of them.

How many rounds your group is rolling, most of time?

On my table, the feared level+4 fights likely take 9~11 rounds. But since this is a "boss fight", we understand that this should be long and excitant on descriptions. Sometimes less, because we go nova on the boss.

Our normal level or level+1 fights usually take 5~8 rounds, tops. We waste all encounters, and then maybe one to 3 rounds of at-wills to finish. Sometimes, we start with at-wills, so on final rounds at least one or two of us is still using encounters.

If your level and level+1 fights are taking more than 10 rounds to finish, maybe your DM is overdoing his work on "interesting terrain" and "well hidden placed artillery".

 

[Mathew_Freeman]

The individual turns are going fast enough. Our problem is that there are just SO MANY of them. The sheer number of rounds it takes to complete a fight is keeping us from progressing the story much, even given a 5 hour stint at the gaming table. My guess is that some combination of decreased enemy hit point would work - but it needs to be balanced by increased enemy output in order to keep things equally challenging. If others have been through the same thing, I'd like to benefit from their experience.

I appreciate that this can be a problem. I'd suggest that one thing you can do to make this better is to make sure you're doing focus-fire on the monsters.

Target one, take it down, then move on to the next. If every player is fighting a monster one-on-one, you'll find that combat is very, very slow.