Star Wars Spoilers Thread [Spoilers]

So here's my review: 100% a Star Wars film which belongs with the original trilogy.

It's a transitional film, but it does it well. The new generation is really good.

I think the major death was kinda signposted a bit. You knew it was coming long before it happened. I felt worse for Chewie, but he, Rey, and BB8 make a great team.

Is this the first Star Wars film where nobody gets their hand cut off?

Luke lives in Ireland, eh?

Question: WHY was there a map to Luke, and why was it split into two? I feel like I missed something. For that matter, why a map and not just some coordinates? Seems like a random puzzle set up for the sake of it.

 

[dd.stevenson]

There are other movies. I wouldn't say things had nothing to do with the plot yet until we see those other movies.

But that's the point: it's not self-contained. It's not tight.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

And the Death Star wasn't blow up by a single proton torpedo. The energy in the reactor exhaust port just started a chain reaction which caused it to blow up.

The effect is the same: small fighter + planetoid megaweapon = explosion

Your definition of the same is...well, wrong.


and it was two torpedoes.

But anyway, luke destroyed the Death Star with one attack, making a shot that...honestly, the biggest plot hole in episode 4 is the rebels thought the plan could work. It only did because The Force.

Starkiller Base, OTOH, was destroyed by a two pronged assault, and almost failed but for luck (which means the force).

One force taking down the containment, one bombarding the exterior, and then an ace pilot doing a stunning maneuver is very, very different from one guy shooting a torpedo into a tiny hole.


Folks who aren't fans of the Rey Finn romance, a question: What about it felt forced? (that's the only distinct criticism i've heard about it)
if there is something else you don't like about it, what?

imo, it isn't even a sure thing yet that there is a romance. meta, we know bc the fact that there will be one, and we know it's not poe because he was supposed to die without ever meeting Rey, so it's gotta be Rey and Finn. But if we pretend those factors don't exist, it could easily just be setting up a friendship. Yeah, Finn clearly wants to touch her butt, but that hardly means there's a romance brewing.

Heck, if I thought there was any way they'd do a gay romance, I'd be inclined to think Finn and Poe are just as likely.


ANyway, I do have one thing I didn't like. IMO, you give Han and Leia and Luke a relatively happy ending. Having them watch everything they accomplished and built either turn on them or die is bullcrap. Save that pessimistic gritty realism garbage for the 50000 tv shows focused on it.
Luckily it didn't ruin the movie for me, but it was a strictly wrong turn, IMO.

 

[Morrus]

Folks who aren't fans of the Rey Finn romance, a question: What about it felt forced? (that's the only distinct criticism i've heard about it)

Eh? What romance? It was made pretty clear there is no romance, IMO. Their theme is friendship and loyalty.

 

[CapnZapp]

Yah. Such is the point of heroic fiction: One person *can* make a difference.

But the tired joke of SW is that one person/fighter ALWAYS makes the difference...

The Imperials should have learned that by now, you'd think.

 

[delericho]

But that's the point: it's not self-contained. It's not tight.

Should the seventh episode in a series of (at least) nine be self-contained? Should the first part of a new trilogy be self-contained?

--Why does Han's death carry no consequences for the plot? The scene could be omitted, and nothing would change. Compare that to Ben's death in A New Hope--take that scene out, and the entire movie would fall apart.

How so?

The only real consequences of Ben's death in the first film are that Lucas had to introduce another bearded older general (Dodonna) to brief the X-Wing pilots about the Death Star weakness, and that Ben had to advise Luke to use the Force from beyond the grave, rather than over the radio.

Apart from that, the consequences of his death consist of a bit of moping from Mark Hamill and three lines: "Nooooo....!", "I can't believe he's gone.", and "I only wish Ben were here." Oh, and possibly "He's not dead... not yet", but given Kenobi's age at that point, that line still works.

 

[Morrus]

Yeah, Kenobi's death had no consequence whatsoever. It was only there because (like Ford), Alec Guinness wanted out. He could easily say "Use the Force, Luke!" over the radio. Solo's death, on the other hand, is a very strong character defining moment for Kylo.

 

[SkidAce]

Ben's death kept Vader from getting to the docking bay where the group was, saving them all. Big consequence.

 

[dd.stevenson]

Should the seventh episode in a series of (at least) nine be self-contained? Should the first part of a new trilogy be self-contained?

By the standards of western story telling, the story the movie tells should be self-contained, meaning that for example the protagonist's conflicting motivations should be made clear during the rising action.

The standards of star wars are higher, IMO, because of the tightly-woven precedent set by the originals; but I guess that's a matter of opinion and taste.

The only real consequences of Ben's death in the first film are that Lucas had to introduce another bearded older general (Dodonna) to brief the X-Wing pilots about the Death Star weakness, and that Ben had to advise Luke to use the Force from beyond the grave, rather than over the radio.

Yeah, Kenobi's death had no consequence whatsoever. ... He could easily say "Use the Force, Luke!" over the radio.

Yes it did; kenobi, as promised, became more powerful than vader could possibly imagine. Sure one could edit the rest of the movie so kenobi's death wasn't paid off, but that's the point: one couldn't alter kenobi's death scene in in isolation, without changing other parts of the movie too. In contrast, Han's death wasn't paid off, other than the shot with chewie crying and maybe leia and rey hugging.

It's a very minor point in comparison to leaving us to guess so much about the protagonist's motivations, but one that bothered me nonetheless.

 

[Morrus]

By the standards of western story telling, the story the movie tells should be self-contained

There is no standard of story telling. And serial stories are hardly a new thing. Just look at the LotR movies for a modem example - or almost any TV show.

Yes it did; kenobi, as promised, became more powerful than vader could possibly imagine.

He did promise that. Then just turned into a ghost who could occasionally give vague advice. Something he was already quite capable of doing while alive.

It had zero impact on the narrative. He died because Alec Guinness wouldn't do the sequels and thought the movie ludicrous and beneath him.

 

[delericho]

Yes it did; kenobi, as promised, became more powerful than vader could possibly imagine. Sure one could edit the rest of the movie so kenobi's death wasn't paid off, but that's the point: one couldn't alter kenobi's death scene in in isolation, without changing other parts of the movie too. In contrast, Han's death wasn't paid off, other than the shot with chewie crying and maybe leia and rey hugging.

Plus the small matter of Chewie's freak-out, leading to Kylo Ren being wounded (and so Finn and Rey surviving), and the shield generator being destroyed (leading to the Starkiller being destroyed, and thus the Resistance surviving).