[Star Wars] Using Damage Save system instead of VP/WP?

[Acid_crash]

Has anybody ever tried using a damage save mechanic for damage instead of using vitality points and wound points in Star Wars, and if so, how has it worked?

I am interested in trying this in an upcoming star wars game cuz I have always wanted to use a Damage save type health system, but I haven't really tried working on changing the vp/wp system yet. Anybody with any good advice willing to help?

 

[wingsandsword]

VP/WP is more integral to Star Wars than it might seem at first, because of the way Force Powers work.

Remember, it costs VP to activate force powers, and (if you have Control) can burn WP until you die to power them too.

If you eliminate VP, you have to come up with a way of dealing with this. If it's a damage save every time you activate a power, that's pretty strange since it's normally only in extreme cases where force use actually physically hurts the user (since VP damage represents fatigue).

If you create a pool of "Force Power Points" to fuel force powers separately, then the Force becomes more powerful, since you don't lose combat staying-power by using your Force skills.

Also, a Damage Save system can make higher level stormtroopers/NPC classed thugs much more difficult. With the VP/WP system, stormtroopers and other generic thugs gain very little extra staying power, a standard 4th level Thug (Stormtrooper) has pretty much the same WP as a much higher level one, even though his Fortitude save may be higher from many levels of Thug which in a Damage Save system makes him much tougher than a VP/WP counterpart.

I don't have much experience with Damage Save, but in the old d6 Star Wars there was a similar mechanism. You rolled your Strength stat (for most humans, anywhere from 2d6 to 4d6, but some PC races could get 5D, and armor stacked on that) to oppose the dice of a weapon (4D for blasters, 5D for heavy blasters and blaster rifles). Thus, a starting wookiee PC with 5D in strength, against blaster pistols doing 4D, meaning that even on a direct hit they were not likely to even hurt him (depending on how high the damage roll is over the strength roll, you took several "wound levels" before you died). This could lead to high Strength characters just shrugging off direct blaster hits.

As I understand the Damage Save system, it can work like this too (race with a CON bonus, high CON score, Great Fortitude & a class with good Fort save progression). You'll also have to deal with the armor, since it provides DR against WP damage, instead of a bonus to your Defense/AC.

Also, you will need to figure out what you'll do for vehicles and starships, since they use the same Damage mechanic as the rest of the game. Since a natural 1 always fails a save, having a blaster pistol do serious harm to a Star Destroyer every 20 shots sounds like a potential weak spot in the system

So, while I can't say what will work for sure, I can advise you to proceed with caution, because Star Wars is different enough from D&D in many respects that balance issues will creep up quickly.

 

[Ranger REG]

If you eliminate VP, you have to come up with a way of dealing with this. If it's a damage save every time you activate a power, that's pretty strange since it's normally only in extreme cases where force use actually physically hurts the user (since VP damage represents fatigue).

In the Psychic's Handbook, we call it Strain, which is actually work like D&D nonlethal damage. If the Strain is greater than the current HP, you pass out from so much exertion.

I don't know what they call for the Arcana System, a skill-n-feat magic system found in Blue Rose, -- a True20 product -- and Advanced Handbook series, all from Green Ronin.

Sorry. Wrong health system.

I believe you need to make a Will saving throw with DC 10 + one-half power's rank in order to NOT suffer a condition of the fatigue tree (Winded, Fatigued, Exhausted).

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

I was about to suggest this.

That's the way I'd do it, personally. There's an addition -1 to the save for each spell/power activated inside of an hour's time.

--fje

 

[swrushing]

Has anybody ever tried using a damage save mechanic for damage instead of using vitality points and wound points in Star Wars, and if so, how has it worked?

I am interested in trying this in an upcoming star wars game cuz I have always wanted to use a Damage save type health system, but I haven't really tried working on changing the vp/wp system yet. Anybody with any good advice willing to help?

I do not have experience with SW VP/Wp specifically but i have run a stargate d20 game for two years now replacing their Wp/VP with a damage save from the get-go. it has worked beautifully in play.

The DS i use is as follows:

made save: -2 unfavorable circumstance for 1 round. Distracted
fail save by 1-4: next turn may only take half action at -2. RATTLED
fail save by 5-8: next turn dazed, no action. DAZED
fail save by 9-12: next turn stunned STUNNED
fail save by 13-16: scene kill (incapacitated for scene, half actions after that until healed)
fail save by 17+: mission kill (incapacitated until healed.)

The save is NOT a fort save but a "toughness" save which advances at 1/2 for fighting types/classes, 1/4 for mid classes and 1/6 for non-combat classes.

Toughness save is CON + Toughness + Armor + Size +d20 roll vs a DC set by weapon.

Typical armor values run around 3-5.
An SMG has a save DC of 28.
A rifle 30.
A punch is 20+STR mod.
A knife is 21+STR mod.

As a general rule, any feat or other ability which increased damage or dr is turned into 1 pt bonus per 3 hit points or 1d6 gained/lost. So toughness (the feat) adds +1 to your toughness save and +1d6 sneak attack adds +1 to your attack's DC.

If you are stunned/surprised, add +4 to DC of your damage save.

If the attack is a crit, increase Dc by +4.

So a 6th level combat prone hero with con 16 and armor 5 (heavier stuff) has a net save bonus of +11 so him getting shot by an SMG is 20% likely DISTRACTED, 20% likely RATTLED, 20% likely DAZED, 20% likely stunned and 20% likely scene kill. With one hero pt spent on reroll the odds of a scene kill drops to 4% for the hero and if he had spent it to +5 before the roll, it goes away.

You can also spend a hero pt to DELAY the onset of a damage effect for 1 turn, allowing your hero the last shot while going down.

Hero points, plot points or whatever, are necessary for DS systems. In my game a hero pt allows a reroll of a die roll and you take the higher. if spent to help a roll BEFORE making the roll you get +5.

Mooks, storm troopers or nameless jaffa, have no hero pts.
Heroes and named adversaries/allies, have hero pts.
Thats how you keep stormtroopers from hanging around long.

Now, for SW you would need to set the Dcs for your blasters and other weapons as appropriate for the level of lethality you want. Setting the DEc lower means people stay up more. Setting it higher means people drop quickly when out of hero pts and maybe even when they have them.

but toughenss saves don't change all that quickly or by a lot.

hope this helps.
It has worked fine for me and mine for two years now in stargate, which isn't too different.

for "using this power causes damage" type balances, just assign DCs for those power uses and have the character make a damage save. You might want to limit the results to scene kill or not as you see appropriate. this will make frequent use "combat draining" as the character suffers the penalties or spends his HP tp keep making the rolls. i cannot advise you which DCs to set, but you can figure that out easily enough. I would PROBABLY not use armor or size for those saves, so a value of somewhere around 15+power level might be appropriate.

 

[Khorod]

Oh, that's very good.

It reduces damage to the plot-device sort of status it has in Stargate. I like that.

I don't have the d20 books, but I've been batting my head against some of the inconsistencies with the series other damage systems seem to create.