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Celebrim

Legend
So, then, do you increase con scores for larger creatures?

In general, for a given creature, the same creature of one size class higher will have +4 CON, +4 STR, -2 DEX, and have +1-3 natural armor bonus.

If anything, the CON bonus for large creatures in D&D is also excessive. A human, which we know in the real world to have one of the best endurances of all large creatures, has an average of about 11 CON. So a large sized human would have 14 CON, right? Nope, a hill giant has 19 CON, 5 more than what we'd expect despite being a fairly runty large size creature at just 1100 pounds. I haven't had a chance to refactor every creature in the game, but if I did, my guess is the average would be lower than the average in the SRD. I'd probably lower the CON of a hill giant by 2-3 in my game, still making them exceptionally hardy but not as ridiculously so as in the RAW.
 

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Celebrim

Legend
Just curious, why does your half-elf suck?

In D&D, in most cases, race plays a fairly small role in your abilities. It's very hard to create a half-elf that isn't strictly better than either the elf or the human, or else strictly worse than either the elf or the human. You could say it is an example of the general problem that D&D has always dealt poorly with small numbers. Elf and human both give you some small bonuses. Half-elf presumably gives you half as much bonus. But, for example, it's very hard to give something like 'half a bonus feat'. If you give the full feat, chances are the half-elf will be better than a human. If you give no feat, chances are it will be worse. There isn't a lot of middle ground sometimes.

Though, for the same basic reasons, it doesn't actually suck by much. It's not like you are giving up a lot to play a half-elf. It's just there are very few character concepts where the racial chose of half-elf is mechanically optimal. The only real advantage to the class is you can take both human and elf racial feats, which I suppose you could do something with.

I should ask one of my system mastery players to evaluate the half-elf and see if he can come up with anything particularly cool.
 
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TheLoneRanger1979

First Post
In D&D, in most cases, race plays a fairly small role in your abilities. It's very hard to create a half-elf that isn't strictly better than either the elf or the human, or else strictly worse than either the elf or the human. You could say it is an example of the general problem that D&D has always dealt poorly with small numbers. Elf and human both give you some small bonuses. Half-elf presumably gives you half as much bonus. But, for example, it's very hard to give something like 'half a bonus feat'. If you give the full feat, chances are the half-elf will be better than a human. If you give no feat, chances are it will be worse. There isn't a lot of middle ground sometimes.

Though, for the same basic reasons, it doesn't actually suck by much. It's not like you are giving up a lot to play a half-elf. It's just there are very few character concepts where the racial chose of half-elf is mechanically optimal. The only real advantage to the class is you can take both human and elf racial feats, which I suppose you could do something with.

I should ask one of my system mastery players to evaluate the half-elf and see if he can come up with anything particularly cool.

Ah, i see. As a person that usually goes to the half-elves for his first several PCs in every edition so far, i was most curious as to what makes your half elves not as good as the other races. Have you made a home brew variant half elf that is different from the ones in current rules?

Personally i find the 5E half elf quite versatile, even though maybe not as "specialized" as some of the other races.
 

Celebrim

Legend
Ah, i see. As a person that usually goes to the half-elves for his first several PCs in every edition so far, i was most curious as to what makes your half elves not as good as the other races. Have you made a home brew variant half elf that is different from the ones in current rules?

Well, half-elf has generally sucked in most versions of the rules (that is, not 5e), but as I said, people play it anyway.

My half-elf is this:

HALF-ELVES
 Medium: As Medium creatures, half-elves have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
 Half-elf base land speed is 30 feet.
 +2 racial saving throw bonus against spells that cause sleep or fatigue, and against all enchantment spells or effects.
 Low-Light Vision: A half-elf can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. She retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions.
 +1 racial bonus on Handle Animal, Balance, Listen, Perform, Search, and Spot checks.
 1 extra destiny point.
 Elven Blood: For all effects related to race, a half-elf is considered to be both an elf and a human. For example, half-elves can take both human and elf racial feats.
 Automatic Languages: Common or Elven; Bonus Languages: Any (other than secret languages).
 Favored Class: Any. When determining whether a multiclass half-elf takes an experience point penalty, his highest-level class does not count.​

Full Elf:

ELVES
 +2 Dexterity or Intelligence or Charisma (player’s choice); –2 Constitution.
 Medium: As Medium creatures, elves have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
 Elf base land speed is 30 feet.
 Elves receive Light Sleeper as a bonus feat, and have a +2 racial saving throw bonus against spells that cause sleep or fatigue.
 +2 racial saving throw bonus and against all enchantment spells or effects.
 Low-Light Vision: An elf can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. He retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions.
 Natural Affinity: An elf always treats Empathy (Animal) as a class skill, and may make skill checks untrained.
 Weapon Proficiency: Elves receive Martial Weapon Proficiency feats for the longsword, rapier, and shortbow as bonus feats. Elves treat the longbow as a martial weapon rather than as an exotic weapon.
 +2 racial bonus on Balance, Listen, Perform, Search, and Spot checks.
 An elf that merely passes within 5 feet of a secret or concealed door is entitled to a Search check to notice it as if she were actively looking for it.
 Automatic Languages: Elven. Bonus Languages: Aquan, Common, Draconic, Goblin, Seelie, and Sylvan.
 Favored Class: Wizard or Shaman. A multiclass elf’s wizard or shaman class, whichever is taken first, does not count when determining whether she takes an experience point penalty for multiclassing.​

Full Human

HUMANS
 Medium: As Medium creatures, humans have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
 Human base land speed is 30 feet.
 1 extra feat at 1st level.
 4 extra skill points at 1st level and 1 extra skill point at each additional level.
 1 extra destiny point.
 Automatic Language: Common. Bonus Languages: Any (other than secret languages)
 Favored Class: Any. When determining whether a multiclass human takes an experience point penalty, his or her highest-level class does not count.​

Comparing the Half-Elf to the human, they get an advantage that is generally weaker than the feat Iron Will, while the human can select any feat that they want. They get the equivalent of 6 bonus skill points, while the Human gets 4 bonus skill points and 1 additional skill point per level after the first where ever they like. Otherwise, they are pretty similar. Low-light vision is ok, but not enough to make up for the advantages in flexibility that the human has.

Comparing the Half-Elf to the Elf, the Elf gets the flexibility to boost Int, Dex or Chr to a starting 18 fairly cheaply, and regardless of class automatically has access to some of the best weapons in the game. They also get pretty much all the advantages of a half-elf, but start with effectively 10 bonus skill points instead of 5 and Light Sleeper as a bonus feat. They also automatically get access to a powerful normally class restricted skill, and a big advantage on their perception by being able to passively search the environment. Against all of these advantages, the half-elf can basically only claim an additional destiny point, cheaper build cost if you want a high Con, and better flexibility when multi-classing. Destiny points and perhaps slightly better Con are nice, but don't quite make up for everything they give up.

Now granted, it's close. I've made the Half-Elf as good as I can make it as a compromise between the two races' respective stat blocks. But it's still a bit weak. The only real advantage it has is that any build that used both Human and Elf racial feats would be a natural fit for the class. Otherwise, it's hard to build something in the race that wouldn't be ever so slightly better with another race.
 
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TheLoneRanger1979

First Post
Now granted, it's close. I've made the Half-Elf as good as I can make it as a compromise between the two races' respective stat blocks. But it's still a bit weak. The only real advantage it has is that any build that used both Human and Elf racial feats would be a natural fit for the class. Otherwise, it's hard to build something in the race that wouldn't be ever so slightly better with another race.

Hmm, i'd play your half elf as well. The thing i think, as to why some people would chose half elves over elves (from my point of view anyway), is that sometimes there is quite a bit of difference from how some of us want the elves to be portrayed and how they actually are/were throughout DnD editions. Half elves on the other hand tend to bring them closer to the antropo...... wrong word..... human side of things. Personally i could never get over the slender fragile archer stereotype (-n Con; bows proficiency) and so in all of my DnD history (both PnP and video games) i have played an elf only twice and the last time was an Eladrin in 4E.
 

AnimeSniper

Explorer
A fellow DM on another forum suggesting making a simple max cap at Lvl 1 i.e. 22 HP or roll 2 d20 dice and merely subtract the players class HD + CON for Lvl 1 so say i.e. 35 hp minus 11 for a fighter human and the player has 24 max/bonus HP
 

StuckInTheEther

First Post
I about to use a rule where PCs get a separate pool called "health points" which is equal to their CON and doesn't change unless their CON does. After hitpoints are depleted they take damage to health points, at which point they roll on the DMG lingering injuries table. If they are lucky, the roll high and get a scratch or bruised ribs, if they roll a 3 or under, bad luck they lose an eye, hand or foot.

This gives them survivability and some wounds to take home along with their stories of adventure. And it opens up the opportunities for dwarven made prosthetics and quests paid in the form of limb regeneration :)
 

AnimeSniper

Explorer
On a related note does anyone know of an Age, Height, Weight tables for the non-core listed races like i.e. centaur, troll, and etcetera that sometimes a DM allows for the player to use in their campaign...
 

AnimeSniper

Explorer
Hello everyone just a small update on some notes that I found in regards to a group discussion of how much can my PC, Race-Z, drink before they become drunk in the tavern... now these were written up with the whole Race Size in mind so feel free to critique them

SizeBonus HP
Fined2
Diminutived3
Tinyd4
Smalld6
Mediumd8
Larged10
Huged12
Gargantuand20 or d100
Colossal and Colossal+ d100
 

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