Steve Kenson's ICONS: Superpowered Roleplaying from Adamant Entertainment

[MerricB]

I'm not doubting you. I just find it odd, since -- completely objectively speaking -- (2d6)-7 is one more computational step than 1d6-1d6. (I suppose they're the same, if you count "pick the red die" as a step.)

The big difference is that, for a lot of us, the computational step of d6+d6 is so ingrained and familiar we really don't have to think about it. It's not "Oh, that's a 2, and that's a 3, so I rolled a 5" it's "Oh, I rolled a 5" - in effect.

Unfortunately, then you get that -7, which mucks it up. Subtraction isn't the hardest mechanic, but the moment you start moving into the negatives, then a lot of people struggle.

When you compare this to 1d6 minus 1d6, then you *certainly* have the problem of identifying which die to subtract from the other. Order suddenly becomes important, where it wasn't for 1d6+1d6.

Eventually, when you've used the mechanic enough times, you'll get to the stage where the pattern recognition most of us have for 1d6+1d6 would kick in (assuming you always use the same dice). Still, that'd be a lot of rolling.

Ultimately, I'd almost prefer to build a deck of 36 (or 72) cards. Mark six (or twelve) of them with "0", five with "1", four with "2", five with "-1", four with "-2", etc. And possibly add a "reshuffle" card as well.

However, I've seen this sort of mechanic before - in Chameleon Eclectic's Babylon 5 - and I'm not too impressed by it. It's of a level of clunkiness that approaches the Siege system of Castles and Crusades.

Cheers!

 

[jaerdaph]

I think, speaking as a GM, I like the idea of not having to pick up any dice.

That's one of the nice things I really like about Icons - The GM rarely has to roll dice!

 

[Kenson]

The big difference is that, for a lot of us, the computational step of d6+d6 is so ingrained and familiar we really don't have to think about it. It's not "Oh, that's a 2, and that's a 3, so I rolled a 5" it's "Oh, I rolled a 5" - in effect.

Unfortunately, then you get that -7, which mucks it up. Subtraction isn't the hardest mechanic, but the moment you start moving into the negatives, then a lot of people struggle.

In my experience, it may be easier if you're adding the 2d6 together and adding your hero's ability level for the GM to simply add 7 to all the difficulties, rather than subtracting 7 from every test result. Same result mathematically, less subtraction. Since the GM isn't really rolling for anything, it provides something to do.

 

[jaerdaph]

Since the GM isn't really rolling for anything, it provides something to do.

You know, in theory, you could probably play Icons without a GM...

• Instead of a GM and players, there would be two teams (of 1 or more players) of PCs - one the heroes, the other the villains.
  
• Set some ground about how the universe works, the setting etc.
  
• Give villains Determination and let them attack/defend/act with a test roll (i.e. they are created and act just like heroes).
  
• Play and plot against each other - salt & pepper to taste...

Does this sound plausible, or am I missing something?

 

[Woas]

I made a character for fun. It was pretty cool.

He ended up being an 'alien' or non-earth creature with life draining powers and 'Probabilty Control' which translated to good luck for the character (I got extra determination points).

I pictured him as a vampire super saiyan

 

[jaerdaph]

I made a character for fun. It was pretty cool.

He ended up being an 'alien' or non-earth creature with life draining powers and 'Probabilty Control' which translated to good luck for the character (I got extra determination points).

I pictured him as a vampire super saiyan

Be sure to share your work!

 

[JoeBlank]

I picked up the preorder, and have been thrilled with the game. I've rolled up plenty of characters, and ran a few test combat session with my sons. All Star (an original character, not the one from the book), the Telekinetic Tarantula and Bolt defeated the Red Kite, Fast Forward and some of the villians from the book.

Although I was a little hesitant about the game mechanic, I briefly explained it to my sons, ages 12, 10 and 8, and they all had no problem with it. The older two were more familiar with the concept of negative numbers, but even the youngest caught right on. We plan to start a full blown campaign soon.

 

[jaerdaph]

Although I was a little hesitant about the game mechanic, I briefly explained it to my sons, ages 12, 10 and 8, and they all had no problem with it. The older two were more familiar with the concept of negative numbers, but even the youngest caught right on. We plan to start a full blown campaign soon.

That's good to hear. My nephews (ages 10 and 7) really want to try Icons after I showed it to them, and I'm fairly confident they'll be able to pick it up. We've already been playing "D&D" with Microlite20 for awhile now.

 

[SuperChris]

Although I was a little hesitant about the game mechanic, I briefly explained it to my sons, ages 12, 10 and 8, and they all had no problem with it. The older two were more familiar with the concept of negative numbers, but even the youngest caught right on. We plan to start a full blown campaign soon.

That is awesome.

I should run it past my 7 year old to see what he thinks of the different dice mechanics.

-SC

 

[jaerdaph]

That is awesome.

I should run it past my 7 year old to see what he thinks of the different dice mechanics.

-SC

Since my nephew is 7 too, we'll have to compare notes.