Stigma and Parental backlash

[AverageCitizen]

This has happened to me several times:

I am engaging in my hobby, preparing adventures, looking at an RPG book, or something to that effect. A young person I am associated with relatively often expresses interest and I give them a quick rundown. They get very excited and want to play. I tell them to ask their parents, they get the go ahead, and we play a little. They love it and are excited to play again.

The next day I get a call. The kid is no longer allowed to play Dungeons and Dragons. I don't ask questions, but it is almost always apparent that a new contributor scuttled the whole thing: a divorced parent or a concerned grandparent or something like that. Someone who has influence over decisions regarding the kid but with whom I don't have a relationship. Also, they are usually kind of obnoxiously old-school types.

Am I the only one who has a problem with this? Does anyone want to commiserate or offer suggestions?

 

[dd.stevenson]

Lie and say that you're playing Pathfinder. That'll learn 'em.

 

[Kobold Stew]

I've played rpgs with almost 2 dozen kids (9-16) -- friends of my son -- over the past several years, and I have never experienced this.

I'm sorry that you've encountered it so much. 1980s hysteria reactions, more than three decades too late?

My advice would be to invite the kid's parent along -- not the one with the problem, but the one phoning you. Let them visit, or play, or watch. We obviously don't have all the details, but any group activity (you and more than two others) shouldn't be suspicious, I'd have thought.

Also, you could conceivably move the location to a game store (again, where the person phoning you can drop their kid and go to a nearby starbucks if they don't want to play.).

 

[was]

Basically, you have ultraconservative religious figures out there who are still using the issue to raise money for their churches. These are the same type of people as those who burned My Little Pony books because of the 'evil' magic they contained during the same period. If you actually compare the vague and highly questionable numbers of these anti-DND groups to actual national statistics, you will discover that kids are still far more likely to commit suicide if they play football, or are involved in cheerleading, than if they play DnD.

"What Do Studies Show about Suicide and Criminal Acts by Gamers?"

Michael Stackpole calculated expected suicide rates by gamers during the early years of Dungeons and Dragons. He used BADD's estimate of 4 million gamers worldwide. Assuming that fantasy role game playing had no effect on youth suicide rate, one would have expected about 500 gamers would have committed suicide each year. As of 1987, BADD had documented an average of 7 per year. It would appear that playing D&D could be promoted as a public health measure, because it drastically lowers the suicide rate among youth. 5,25

Suzanne Abyeta & James Forest studied the criminal tendencies of "gamers" and found that they committed fewer than average numbers of crimes for individuals of the same age. 6

The Association of Gifted-Creative Children of California surveyed psychological autopsies of adolescent suicides and were unable to find any that were linked to these games. Their National Association has endorsed Dungeons and Dragons for its educational content. 7,8

The American Association of Suicidology, 9 the Center for Disease Control, 10 and Health & Welfare (Canada) 11 have conducted extensive studies into teen suicide. They have found no link to fantasy role playing games.

Dr. S. Kenneth Schonbert studied over 700 adolescent suicides and found none which had fantasy role playing games as a factor. 12

The Committee for the Advancement of Role-Playing Games has investigated every suicide or criminal case that BADD advanced, and has been unable to find any caused by role playing games.

for further research, start here:

http://www.seads.net/airpga/docs/DnD info Ocult - religion - Sui.htm
http://www.rpgstudies.net/stackpole/pulling_report.html#Lies
http://www.rpgstudies.net/#4
https://web.archive.org/web/20120204055634/http://www.usask.ca/relst/jrpc/art9-roleplaying.html

 

[AverageCitizen]

Lie and say that you're playing Pathfinder. That'll learn 'em.

Seriously. Or Saga Edition. Or Mouse Guard. Thing is, I was just running a D&D module with him, this most recent occurrence. I feel bad for the kid, because he is gonna miss out, but I'm not sure if I want to go to bat for him just to give myself a bunch of homework.

I've played rpgs with almost 2 dozen kids (9-16) -- friends of my son -- over the past several years, and I have never experienced this.

I'm sorry that you've encountered it so much. 1980s hysteria reactions, more than three decades too late?

We obviously don't have all the details, but any group activity (you and more than two others) shouldn't be suspicious, I'd have thought.

Also, you could conceivably move the location to a game store (again, where the person phoning you can drop their kid and go to a nearby starbucks if they don't want to play.).

Basically, you have ultraconservative religious figures out there who are still using the issue to raise money for their churches. These are the same type of people as those who burned My Little Pony books because of the 'evil' magic they contained during the same period. If you actually compare the vague and highly questionable numbers of these anti-DND groups to actual national statistics, you will discover that kids are still far more likely to commit suicide if they play football, or are involved in cheerleading, than if they play DnD.

You know, I think sometimes the 80s suicide concerns or the witch hunts are a factor, but sometimes (this time) I don't think it's even that complicated. I think it's "that's a weird thing and I don't want my kid to turn out to be a nerd who does weird things like that." Which is kinda hard not to take personally. It's also frustrating because they don't have any idea what D&D is; they just know they don't want their kid doing it based on stigma alone.

EDIT: Missed a word

 

[Kobold Stew]

I don't think it's even that complicated. I think it's "that's a weird thing and I don't want my kid to turn out to be a nerd who does weird things like that." Which is kinda hard not to take personally. It's also frustrating because they don't have any idea what D&D is; they just know they don't want their kid doing it based on stigma alone.

If that's all it is, invite the parents along to play. That really should be enough.

 

[doctorhook]

Basically, you have ultraconservative religious figures out there who are still using the issue to raise money for their churches. These are the same type of people as those who burned My Little Pony books because of the 'evil' magic they contained during the same period. If you actually compare the vague and highly questionable numbers of these anti-DND groups to actual national statistics, you will discover that kids are still far more likely to commit suicide if they play football, or are involved in cheerleading, than if they play DnD.

"What Do Studies Show about Suicide and Criminal Acts by Gamers?"

Michael Stackpole calculated expected suicide rates by gamers during the early years of Dungeons and Dragons. He used BADD's estimate of 4 million gamers worldwide. Assuming that fantasy role game playing had no effect on youth suicide rate, one would have expected about 500 gamers would have committed suicide each year. As of 1987, BADD had documented an average of 7 per year. It would appear that playing D&D could be promoted as a public health measure, because it drastically lowers the suicide rate among youth. 5,25

Suzanne Abyeta & James Forest studied the criminal tendencies of "gamers" and found that they committed fewer than average numbers of crimes for individuals of the same age. 6

The Association of Gifted-Creative Children of California surveyed psychological autopsies of adolescent suicides and were unable to find any that were linked to these games. Their National Association has endorsed Dungeons and Dragons for its educational content. 7,8

The American Association of Suicidology, 9 the Center for Disease Control, 10 and Health & Welfare (Canada) 11 have conducted extensive studies into teen suicide. They have found no link to fantasy role playing games.

Dr. S. Kenneth Schonbert studied over 700 adolescent suicides and found none which had fantasy role playing games as a factor. 12

The Committee for the Advancement of Role-Playing Games has investigated every suicide or criminal case that BADD advanced, and has been unable to find any caused by role playing games.

for further research, start here:

http://www.seads.net/airpga/docs/DnD info Ocult - religion - Sui.htm
http://www.rpgstudies.net/stackpole/pulling_report.html#Lies
http://www.rpgstudies.net/#4
https://web.archive.org/web/20120204055634/http://www.usask.ca/relst/jrpc/art9-roleplaying.html

Using my sociological imagination, these conclusions are pretty intuitive. RPGs give players a structured setting for creativity, escape from day-to-day concerns, and provide positive, structured social interaction; that's a powerful balm for a lonely or unhappy mind.

 

[was]

You know, I think sometimes the 80s suicide concerns or the witch hunts are a factor, but sometimes (this time) I don't think it's even that complicated. I think it's "that's a weird thing and I don't want my kid to turn out to be a nerd who does weird things like that." Which is kinda hard not to take personally. It's also frustrating because they don't have any idea what D&D is; they just know they don't want their kid doing it based on stigma alone.

You also have to remember that these protests gained speed and were taken over by religious conservatives just as their campaigns against the 'satanic' influences of rock music finally fell apart. They needed a new cash cow to milk so they turned to DnD.

 

[Mikaela Barree]

I feel quite lucky that I grew up raised by two gamers. In fact, almost everyone on my dad's side of the family plays rpgs. I have an aunt and uncle who went to Gen Con all the time when they were younger.

But my dad did almost get fired once because he was seen DMing a tournament at a mall, so I figure those prejudices are still alive and well with that set.

 

[wedgeski]

I must say I've never encountered this kind of thing but I haven't recruited in the under-18 age-group for years. I might get involved in organised play for 5E, so it's possible I'll see more of it.

The closest I've come was trying to persuade a notorious hipster anti-nerd friend of mine of the potential value of his 10-year-old playing RPG's, as he was worried she didn't have enough friends. It came to nothing, unfortunately, but for his part he listened carefully to what we had to say.

At school, none of our parents had any problem with D&D or RPG's. This was in the 80's but not in the US, where the anti-D&D fervour was grounded. Over here in the UK it didn't get nearly as much traction.