Still no SRD for 3rd party companies

[delericho]

It's WotC's IP to do with as they see fit. If they choose to release the SRD late, or even not at all, that's their prerogative.

However, I would have thought it was in their interest to try to make sure publishers have something to work with far enough in advance that any releases they have slated for June next year can be 4e compatible. Not only will that allow for a greater range of supporting material (read: introductory adventures) than WotC alone can produce, but it also cuts out any risk of them publishing 3.5e compatible materials instead. Given that the current edition is the strongest competition to the new edition, it would seem wise to avoid that. (This is especially true where Paizo are concerned, since if they miss the deadline for making the first adventure of the 3rd Pathfinder AP 4e-ready, then that will mean at least 6 months of further 3.5e support, which surely cannot be desirable to WotC?)

Of course, the powers that be at WotC might choose to take the opposite view: that it's better to release the SRD late, and thus have a few months entirely without competition. That then raises the question: why release an SRD at all? Why not just cut out the competitors entirely, and permanently? (It also misses the point that these 'competitors' are really nothing of the sort. The biggest seller is the PHB, and all other products serve to sell more PHBs. That being the case, the existence of support products from 'competitors' help, rather than hinder, the WotC bottom line.)

 

[TerraDave]

That would do horrible things to the industry. As soon as 4e was announced, both WotC and 3rd party RPG sales dropped off dramatically. At this point, the sooner it comes out the better for 3rd party publishers and retailers.

(for some reason I have to keep quoting this cat)

To pick up on some of the comments above: I still believe that it is in WotCs interest that there some 3rd party products out there when 4th ed comes out. I think having that 4th edition Tome of Horrors or Pathfinder or Goodman modules out there when 4th ed is released will help core rule sales, and secure the games continued domminace, as well as helping the 3rd party publishers.

But maybe I am just naive, and WotC should just try to take all the market for itself.

Actually, the third solution, leave the 3rd parties hanging and then send out the SRD late, would seem to make the least sense.

 

[delericho]

I should note up-front that what I say below is not what I think WotC are doing. It's just a thought that occurred to my paranoid little brain.

Actually, the third solution, leave the 3rd parties hanging and then send out the SRD late, would seem to make the least sense.

If your intent was to put those companies out of business, it would make sense:

If you release the SRD, they can produce product.

If you tell them there's no SRD coming, they won't wait for the SRD, but go ahead and produce product, either 3.5e compatible or for a new game system entirely.

If you tell them that there's an SRD coming 'soon', though, they're likely to hold out for the SRD, and the more lucrative 4e-compatible business. Of course, all the time they're not producing product they're bleeding money...

 

[Mortellan]

I firmly believe the PHB -is- finished and the playtested and edited version won't differ hardly at all. They could get an SRD out in time if they wanted.

 

[DocSER]

I could see production schedules being quite restrictive - but are we talking about 3 months of lead time to print or 3 weeks? I simply don't know. This is not what most people are complaining about, though. Again, much of the layout work could be done in advance - one just has to be careful. I bet a picture of a fighter in vaguely heavy armor will still work for flavor art - for example.

Balance is more of a concern but, frankly, I don't think that will be easy for anyway regardless of the lead time. It took more than a few extra months too get 2E and 3E balancing to a sustainable level. If companies are used to months of playtesting - that process won't work here. Will the balancing suffer - yes. Will it be greatly improved by having an extra month or two - I doubt it. It takes a couple of months for people to figure out how to break polymorph or whatever fragile elements are in the PHB.

As to whether I am being hasty in saying I could convert a module in a weekend, I stand by that based on my experience moving from 1E to 2E and 2E to 3E. The problem would be the inability to rely on the new features of third edition in those initial modules (like new terrain options, for example). You could sprinkle some new features into the mix - but you would keep it limited for new features. If anything, this may force publishers to differentiate their products based on fluff rather than crunch - an approach I entirely favor. I think Paizo's offerings and the Dungeon Crawl Classics already do a good job at this. They don't design products based on a kewl new PrCs or templates on a villain. They differentiate base on story and flavor.

A bigger issue may be the nature of the SRD release (assuming it is forthcoming). I am curious at whether they will phase the release of the SRD to the third party publishers. If, as many have reasonably speculated, WotC is waiting for the PHB to go into a near final draft before releasing the SRD, will this SRD release omit DMG material (magic items) and MM materials (monsters)?

Based on these early comments, the disruption seems to be based on the details of printing lead time. I don't know what timetables that these publishers are working on but I don't see the basis for the apocalyptic (and sometimes conspiratorial) predictions floating around these boards.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Exactly. Stand on their own merits rather than riding the coattails of WotC.

Yes, because look at how great all those indie publishers do without D20. Why, the head of Eden Studios only has to have ONE full-time job!

 

[Scribble]

How far in advance did the 3e SRD get released? (or the 3.5 for that matter?)

 

[Michele Carter]

I firmly believe the PHB -is- finished and the playtested and edited version won't differ hardly at all.

As one of the people who is frantically working on editing the PH right now (and who doesn't, really, have time even for this post :/), I can assure you that is entirely untrue.

...oh, don't panic. It's in good shape, but in no way DONE. And there's enough detail work and feedback integration still ongoing that those changes would make a significant difference to anyone trying to design from the PH now, as opposed to in a week or three.*

* Which is not a statement of any kind about the timing of SRD, since that's entirely out of my baliwick.

 

[Fathead]

Too many of the initial 3rd party 3.x releases were...how to put it in a way that Eric's Grandmother would approve....less than stellar.

I believe that's why they were only offering the SRD to proven 3rd party publishers. I've been pleased with the quality of products churned out by the surviving 3E companies. I take it that you haven't? You'd prefer that the SRD be withheld from proven publishers?

Exactly. Stand on their own merits rather than riding the coattails of WotC.

Interesting. I see it from this perspective - I'd rather that these companies (Goodman Games, Paizo, Necromancer, etc) continue to produce D&D products. I doubt that their entire livelihood is resting solely on the D&D license, but I'd be willing to bet that it takes a big bite out of them.

 

[Bacris]

Exactly. Stand on their own merits rather than riding the coattails of WotC.

So instead of supporting the most popular system, we should all develop our own systems?

In my eyes, the beauty of the OGL is that fans of the system can support the systems in areas WotC might not want to or can't, for whatever reason. Telling them to stand on their own merits is kind of a slap in the face to other fans of D&D...

Just sayin.