Stirges and Dragons

[Tom McCafferty]

From now on I guess all dragons will have protection from good cast on them, or hava a ring or amulet, as this will block the blighters right in their tracks. This saves wasting a feat for great cleave instead of hover or fly by attack.

 

[nameless]

Why Shadows and not Spectres? Touch attacks for 2 negative levels, plus incorporeality, which beats blindsense and 50% of the time beats breath weapons.

 

[Shin Okada]

Why Shadows and not Spectres? Touch attacks for 2 negative levels, plus incorporeality, which beats blindsense and 50% of the time beats breath weapons.

That 17th spell caster can call 4 shadows per cast, or 2 spectres per cast.

A Great Red Wyrm has Str of 45 and 40 hd.

A shadow needs 7+ (70 % chance) to hit, and inflicts 1d6 strength damage per hit. So 4 shadows will inflict 4 x 0.7 x 3.5 = 9.8 strength damage per round. Thus, they are likely to kill the dragon within 5 rounds.

A spectre needs 4+ (85 % chance) to hit, and inflicts 2 negative damage per hit. So 2 spectres will inflict 2 x 0.85 x 2 = 3.4 negative levels per round. Thus, they need nearly 12 round to kill the dragon in average.

Of course, things may not go always as planned.

 

[Gaiden]

Even if everything goes off exatly a planned the dragon would just either teleport away from the stirges or hit them with an AoE spell, or roll a 1 on his breath recharge and nuke them, or any of a number of other options available to any dragon capable of holding his own against a 17th level party.

And that's assuming that the dragon's touch AC is actually that low. He culd very well have up spells to boost it, from the lowly Shield of Faith to the mighty Scintillaing scales.

I am not so sure. As you mentioned, the party is 17th level. Most likely, the mage has a counterspell waiting for teleport or fireball. True, the buff spells could help with the dragon's touch AC, but then, you could also summon 17 alien stirges and have the mage cast a quickened haste on all of them so that they could just true strike the dragon.

Of course, the plan isn't an auto-kill. Like I said, I give it about a 75% chance of success. Still, its one of the best plans I've ever seen. The lantern archon summoning is probably the only full proof method (and it would probably be better to just summon a bunch with extended summon monster spells). However, the stirge tactic has an element of surprise, IMO. If 40 some odd lantern archons suddenly teleport into the dragon's lair, it's going to know to get the hell out of dodge. If some cleric summons 17 stirges, it would probably laugh (if it hasn't seen the tactic used before). Thinking along your suggestions - a simple low level AoE spell would probably wipe them all out - little does it realize that it may only have 6 seconds to live. I doubt the dragon would give them a second glance when gate could have alternatively been used for a balor or pit fiend or something far more powerful.

 

[James McMurray]

And if the mage is just sitting there waiting for something to happen, the dragon will know he's readying something and just breathe instead.

All-in-all, several quickened enervations and energy drains preceded by a mordenkainen's disjunction will end a dragon's life much faster than 17 stirges will.

 

[Inconsequenti-AL]

With the Stirges: Why couldn't the dragon could just roll over a couple of times as a move action? I'm not sure how the mechanics would work, but I think it'd be damn effective.

 

[James McMurray]

It would most likely be considered a crush attack against all the stirges (since they're in his space). That means he'll deal 4d6 or 4d8 damage to all of those little buggers. Of course, they get a reflex save for half.

 

[Gaiden]

And if the mage is just sitting there waiting for something to happen, the dragon will know he's readying something and just breathe instead.

All-in-all, several quickened enervations and energy drains preceded by a mordenkainen's disjunction will end a dragon's life much faster than 17 stirges will.

Maybe you missed the part about 1 round...

Like I said, there is a 25% chance the dragon will be able to breath the next round. That is the only way to be sure to survive. All other particular counters have counters of their own that are just as likely.

Even with quickened enervations, you still could only get at most 5 off in one round. For a 1 round kill, the only thing that will work better is the lantern archons (which is the default for killing anything in 1 round). The best part about this stirge tactic is that it takes 1 spell (not including counters to the dragon's method of taking out the stirges).