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Storytelling or Roleplaying?

Speaking of task resolution. The one thing I noticed is that he once asked me to make 3 Stealth checks to get close enough to the camp a second time. I made the 3 rolls and then waited for him to ask me what they were...but he had already launched into a description of me sneaking past all the guards easily. He never did actually ask me what I rolled.


:lol::lol: Reminds me of an old 1E game I played in. The DM was a good friend (RIP :.-() but didn't understand the concept of actually using the results of resolution mechanics. After some heavy handed sessions we peeked at his adventure notes. It was a script! We read language such as:

The orcs will suprise the PC's.
On round 2 , orc 4 hits character 3 for 7 points of damage. :hmm:

Bad game. Good times. :D
 

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JRRNeiklot

First Post
Wow. Just. Wow. As much as I dislike 4e, it ain't the game system this time. I'd just leave and tell the dm to email me and tell me what happens.
 

FireLance

Legend
This guy's problem isn't 4E. His problem is his primitive GMing.
Ah, but if 4E didn't exist, his GMing wouldn't be considered primitive. Hence, it's 4E's fault. :p

Plus, 4E gives PCs combat powers, and when PCs have combat powers, they attack NPCs that they are not supposed to attack. So, it's a 4E problem again! ;)
 

Ah, but if 4E didn't exist, his GMing wouldn't be considered primitive. Hence, it's 4E's fault. :p

Plus, 4E gives PCs combat powers, and when PCs have combat powers, they attack NPCs that they are not supposed to attack. So, it's a 4E problem again! ;)

LOL!
I will help you if you kill the blacksmith who sold me this sword.
Yeah thats a great idea lets kill the blacksmith!
THATS A STUPID IDEA!
He said kill the blacksmith so I kill the blacksmith.
THE BLACKSMITH TURNS INTO A PLATINUM DRAGON AND EATS YOU!!

Oh MY! How insidious. 4E corrupts in subtle ways. :p
 
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Majoru Oakheart

Adventurer
Also, this is more specific to 4e itself but when we got to the one combat we had it...worked very differently than I was used to.

He started initiative while we were sneaking towards a barn and farm house we kept making stealth checks and going through initiative with no enemies seeing us. Which was weird to me, our normal group doesn't roll until actual combat starts, so we can do surprise rounds and have the Rogue's class feature work.

There are a good 12 minis on the map. He hints that there are more inside both buildings that we can't see. But mentions that it is a stormy night. I blurt out that the storm should cover our approach. He gives me 25 bonus XP for figuring out that storms make noise because he likes when players figure out the implications of his descriptions and pay attention to the details.

I suggest we take out the guards and then run into the barn where we know the slaves are being stored. The other people in the group look at me with incredulous looks...like....why would they attack the guards? Instead it is suggested that we tie a rope to crossbow bolt, use it to climb to the second floor of the barn, sneak in, and let the slaves out without talking anyone.

I argue that if the guards hear us, we'll just get stuck in the barn and surrounded. I'm outvoted.

Then the DM tells me that I stop some intelligent zombies who don't spot us, but obviously smell us. One of them mumbles something about "the living" and they start wandering in our direction. They get to about 3 squares away from us, and we are still 15 or so squares from the barn. I figure we should take them out quickly now, so the people in the barn won't hear it. I figure that's why the DM made such a big deal about the storm being loud...he wanted us to realize we could take out the group of zombies without alerting anyone else.

I figure they must be minions or something, because we already have a good 16 enemies on the board. Turns out they are all soldiers. I eventually figure out that there are NO minions on the board. We are fighting 16 normal creatures. WAY beyond what we should be able to handle.

But, all the enemies on the board hear us the second we start fighting the zombies. I get yelled at by the party for choosing to fight when they wanted to sneak in. They say I've doomed the party.

Then combat starts. Here's where it gets a bit confusing for me. I like the Assassin class. I started with a 20 Dex, because there was no good reason not to. I have a +2 weapon. I'm a pretty good striker. After the first round or two, the DM starts getting really mad at me because I'm "way too cheap". He finds the idea that I can teleport at will as a minor action and use my assassin shroud as a free action plus move AND attack each round horribly broken. It doesn't seem all that powerful to me compared to what I'm used to.

Then I find out what I'm comparing against. The wizard has an 18 Int at level 5. He does not have a magic implement at all. Despite the DM giving us the standard magic items(level, level+1, level-1). He misses everyone in the area of effect when he uses fireball after this conversation:

Wizard: "I fireball and roll a 1...Wow...that sucks. It does nothing."
DM: "See, that's why we have a house rule that you can use an action point to reroll an attack roll, one bad roll in this stupid system ruins the game. It's likely that it'll be a TPK now."
Me: "Except he should attack the other 5 people in the area of effect."
DM: "Right...forgot about that."
Wizard: "I miss them ALL...that sucks...I only have +4 to hit."
Me: "+4? Umm, that sounds wrong. You're level 5. You should have at least +8."
Wizard: "No...18 int, +4."
Me: "Plus, you get 2 for being level 5...and you get your implement bonus"
Wizard: "I don't have a magic implement. So, +6."
DM: "That still misses them all. See, still a bad system."
Me: "Except that fireball does half damage on a miss."
Wizard: "It does? I can't see that....oh...there it is."
DM: "In that case, 3 of them die."

Also, this is the first DM I've played under that tells us no numbers at all. He recorded all of our defenses in advance....but I never saw him look at them once the whole combat. I think he was just estimating.

Still, the enemies rounds went like this: "This round the Assassin takes 9, and the Artificer takes 3." We never took any status effects at all...the entire combat. We weren't knocked prone, pushed or pulled. But the DM didn't consult a MM the whole battle either. Except once. About round 8 or so, he picked up a MM and turned to a page and said "Oh, I was off by 1 on their AC. No big deal." then put the book away again.

Either way, we had 3 people unconscious and dying at the end of the combat. The remaining 8 guys apparently decided to run then instead of finishing us off.

Right near the end of the combat, I decided to use the 5th level Assassin daily that summons a Shadow Duplicate of yourself and it can attack as a minor action every round for 3 or 6 damage if the creature has a shroud. The DM thought this was the cheapest, most broken power ever because it could move 5 squares whenever I took a move action. Apparently, the other players did too, since after the game the Wizard's player posted a message saying that he thought my character was kind of cheap and he felt pity on the DM because he had to deal with me.

It still completely baffles me. I specifically didn't take Weapon Focus or Expertise because I decided if they were a group of roleplayers, I would avoid any feats that helped me in combat. They thought I was way too powerful.
 

Majoru Oakheart

Adventurer
LOL!
I will help you if you kill the blacksmith who sold me this sword.
Yeah thats a great idea lets kill the blacksmith!
THATS A STUPID IDEA!
He said kill the blacksmith so I kill the blacksmith.
THE BLACKSMITH TURNS INTO A PLATINUM DRAGON AND EATS YOU!!

LOL. Yeah, I could never get the whole story from them, they kept telling me "It's done with, we don't have to rehash it."

There was mention of spending 6 weeks getting to the "dungeon" and then having the combat oriented players purposefully trigger traps because they summoned monsters and wanted to kill something. Then, when the battle overwhelmed them, they stepped on a trap that filled the entire room with lava so they could kill themselves and all the enemies as well.

The DM couldn't figure out a way to salvage his story after nearly everyone was dead. So, they were super pissed off at these new combat oriented players. The only reason the players in question knew that trap filled the room with lava is that the DM said "It could be worse, you were purposefully activating traps, but you didn't activate the one over here...it's the worst, it fills the room with lava." So, they did. Their characters had no idea, but the DM allowed it anyways....and blamed it on the say yes philosophy.
 

The DM didn't know what he was doing. I'm starting to get a pretty good picture of this. This is like the guy who says he plays (whatever edition, whatever game) but doesn't actually use the combat system..or any other rules. So you were really at the mercy of "how he wanted the story to go" all along.

Although you missed the oportunity for this joke:

"...the DM tells me that I stop some intelligent zombies who don't spot us, but obviously smell us. "

"But theyre zombies, how do they smell?"

PUNCHLINE: "Terrible!"
 

lotuseater

Explorer
that doesn't sound like roleplaying at all. and it sounds terribly boring. well, actually it sounds pretty amusing, but in an out of body experience type of way. most of all, it just seems they aren't playing d&d. whether you call it role playing, or whether you call it storytelling, whatever it is, the d&d mechanics do not suit it whatsoever.

they usually play 3.5? that doesn't seem any better suited. min/maxing is even more possible.

i hope you have other options for games. it certainly doesn't seem like these players would be interested in playing your style of game even with you dming.
 

SSquirrel

Explorer
I used to game (for an extremely short time) with a guy in college who wanted to be a movie director. He had very definite character ideas for everyone and had me setup as the cleric son of some powerful ruler or something, supposedly very pivotal in the story he was working up to. So our 2nd session I had had a couple of major tests and not much sleep so I warned them up front I was running on empty when the session started. I fell asleep during the session and woke up to a cave bear having ripped out part of my throat.

The magic of the world was a bit more primitive than standard 2nd ed and while they were able to save me, I would be unable to talk. I was given 10 pills that the alchemist came up wiuth that would allow me to speak a full sentence, but after that I would be SOL. I pointed out that every spell in the game for Clerics had a verbal component and his attitude seemed to be that I shouldn't have fallen asleep. That was my last session.

My friends who played in his other game, he had 2 different games running that would dovetail together...I think we were supposd to be their children or something, said that they played thru everything he threw at them and when he came up to his twist and reveal they all revolted on him saying their characters would never do pretty much anything he said they were. Made me glad I got out of his game when I did.
 

DM: "See, that's why we have a house rule that you can use an action point to reroll an attack roll, one bad roll in this stupid system ruins the game. It's likely that it'll be a TPK now."

DM: "That still misses them all. See, still a bad system."

This is a DM who hates the game he is running and wants to make it suck at all costs to prove his point. Whether he is capable of running a good game at all remains to be seen.

4E isn't what I would call my "go to" system of choice, but I recently started a campaign using 4E and intend on having it not suck because running a crappy game for my friends is no way to prove anyhing except that I know how to ruin an evening of fun. This DM sounds more like a selfish tool than a clueless newb. Someone else should run a real game and kick him out before he poisons that one.
 

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