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D&D 4E STR 'to-hit' bonus departing in 4e?

Cadfan

First Post
Roger- one of the interpretations of that stat block is that the Str +7(19) really means that the +7 is the bonus on strength based skills, and the 19 is the strength score itself. The +7 skill bonus is what you would get if you took the +4 bonus from strength, and 1/2 the monster's level. The same is true for each other ability score.

This would mean that this monster's "BAB" is actually 5, which seems reasonable for a level 6 skirmisher.
 

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chitzk0i

Explorer
Cadfan said:
This creates a stat spread problem on the Paladin's most important statistic- his attack statistic.
At least one blog post has stated that using multiple abilities like that will be less of a problem since they will be more generous with stats.
 

GreatLemur

Explorer
I think it's kind of odd that people are picturing fantasy warrior archetypes as strong but not agile. The classic warrior protagonists seem to be generally athletic--equally strong and agile--while a few duelist types are more agile than strong, and only more brutish characters are more strong than agile. Really, the idea of raw strength being more important in armed melee combat than speed or precision seems more like a D&Dism to me than any kind of fiction emulation.

Bagpuss said:
Dex modify accuracy really only makes sense for light weapons which is already covered by Weapon Finesse. Decent Str is need to wield heavier weapons with any sort of control, it would still makes sense to have Strength add to attack in melee from a 'realism' angle even if armour didn't make you harder to hit.
It doesn't make a hell of a lot of sense to require a feat in order for one's agility and hand-eye coordination to influence their melee combat accuracy. Also, it doesn't make sense for their raw physical strength to ever influence melee combat accuracy with light or natural weapons.

The point about strength being necessary to swing a heavy object with any kind of control is a good one, though. I like the idea of heavier weapons imposing attack penalties on wielders with insufficient Strength scores, myself. Also, if you really want to go out of your way to reinforce archetypes, Strength requirements on armor would not be illogical.

On the other hand, I think I might actually not use Dexterity for ranged attacks. Well, not for point-and-pull-the-trigger ranged attacks, anyway. Thrown weapons, sure. But projectiles and rays might actually run off Wisdom, in its rather half-assed capacity as a perception stat.
 

Dausuul

Legend
GreatLemur said:
I think it's kind of odd that people are picturing fantasy warrior archetypes as strong but not agile. The classic warrior protagonists seem to be generally athletic--equally strong and agile--while a few duelist types are more agile than strong, and only more brutish characters are more strong than agile. Really, the idea of raw strength being more important in armed melee combat than speed or precision seems more like a D&Dism to me than any kind of fiction emulation.

Tell that to Ser Gregor Clegane in A Song of Ice and Fire. ;)
 

cignus_pfaccari

First Post
drothgery said:
He doesn't. He hits an unarmored monk in a way that does damage more often.

Especially since the swing or thrust is moving faster, since there's more force behind it. This means there's less time for the monk to decide to dodge or parry, and less time for the monk to actually do that, so it's harder for them to get out of the way of the blow or bat it away.

That can make the difference between a glancing blow that wouldn't affect HP, to an actual solid hit that does affect HP.

Brad
 

GreatLemur

Explorer
Dausuul said:
Tell that to Ser Gregor Clegane in A Song of Ice and Fire. ;)
Hey, he's a perfect example: He's a giant with an inhuman Strength score, but even he turns out to be surprisingly fast in a fight*, with enough Dexterity that he's a real threat, but not so much that a Dex-focused Fighter can't get in a few hits before eventually falling to his brute power.

*Which is such a common line that it's almost a cliche, actually. It seems like every big, strong warrior-type who isn't complete cannon fodder is pointed out as "surprisingly" quick and agile for their bulk.
 


Nifft

Penguin Herder
GreatLemur said:
*Which is such a common line that it's almost a cliche, actually. It seems like every big, strong warrior-type who isn't complete cannon fodder is pointed out as "surprisingly" quick and agile for their bulk.
It's a surprise when any particular person turns out to not be cannon fodder, I guess?

If it were a little dude, he'd be "surprisingly strong" for his non-bulk.

Cheers, -- N
 


Khaim

First Post
Cadfan said:
Roger- one of the interpretations of that stat block is that the Str +7(19) really means that the +7 is the bonus on strength based skills, and the 19 is the strength score itself. The +7 skill bonus is what you would get if you took the +4 bonus from strength, and 1/2 the monster's level. The same is true for each other ability score.

That would make sense, except that I think it's been confirmed that stat mods are now (stat/2)-2 instead of (stat/2)-5. In other words, 18-19 Str = +7 bonus, regardless of level. Which means the Spined Devil has a net -1 from "things we don't know about", which are probably "misc skirmisher bonus" and "two attacks penalty". I could easily see +1 and -2 for those, which makes the math work. (Bruisers might get a +2 class bonus, but I doubt skirmishers will.)
 

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