D&D 4E STR 'to-hit' bonus departing in 4e?

[Victim]

*Which is such a common line that it's almost a cliche, actually. It seems like every big, strong warrior-type who isn't complete cannon fodder is pointed out as "surprisingly" quick and agile for their bulk.

Probably because people generally think big=slow without much reason. So every big strong guy with at least average speed will be surprising.

Note that STR is a broad attribute, covering both body-builder lifting ability and the general athletics for climbing, jumping, etc. It's not just being a huge guy.

 

[HeinorNY]

Since 4e is striving to release some sacred cows, I'm thinking it's time to be rid of the 'STR adds a to-hit bonus' and simply allow it to only affect damage. I guess that would leave two options, either DEX would modify the attack roll or the attack roll will only be modified by skill (proficiencies etc.) or magic.

Do you really believe this guy...

...could handle this weapon...

...more efficiently than this guy?

Just let STR modify attack rolls.

 

[kennew142]

That would make sense, except that I think it's been confirmed that stat mods are now (stat/2)-2 instead of (stat/2)-5. In other words, 18-19 Str = +7 bonus, regardless of level. Which means the Spined Devil has a net -1 from "things we don't know about", which are probably "misc skirmisher bonus" and "two attacks penalty". I could easily see +1 and -2 for those, which makes the math work. (Bruisers might get a +2 class bonus, but I doubt skirmishers will.)

Or on the other hand, it has been denied that stat mods are (stat/2)-2, but this piece of "information" keeps popping up anyway.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Dex modify accuracy really only makes sense for light weapons which is already covered by Weapon Finesse. Decent Str is need to wield heavier weapons with any sort of control, it would still makes sense to have Strength add to attack in melee from a 'realism' angle even if armour didn't make you harder to hit.

It also makes sense for a touch attack to deliver a spell - a situation where I can't really see what relevance Str might have at all.

On the other hand, we may find in 4e that Str only applies to attacks against AC defence, and attacks against Reflex defence (the new touch attack?) might require a different ability score to be used. Just guessing.

 

[Wyrmshadows]

Strength bonus to hit represents brawn pounding through someone's defenses. Getting rid of that would be ridiculous. A powerful warrior raining blows down on someone struggling to maintain their defenses because of the force of the blows is completely believable.

Strength matters and D&D needs to reflect that.



Wyrmshadows

 

[Khaim]

Or on the other hand, it has been denied that stat mods are (stat/2)-2, but this piece of "information" keeps popping up anyway.

Where was it denied? And I seem to recall that R&C confirmed the -2, but I could be wrong.

 

[pawsplay]

Since 4e is striving to release some sacred cows, I'm thinking it's time to be rid of the 'STR adds a to-hit bonus' and simply allow it to only affect damage. I guess that would leave two options, either DEX would modify the attack roll or the attack roll will only be modified by skill (proficiencies etc.) or magic.

Anyone else think this change will occur?

I doubt it. Apart from tradition and game balance it makes no sense from a realism standpoint. Obviously a high Str helps you defeat strong armor, but it also helps you better past someone's defenses in melee. And Str in D&D is fast strength; while it is used (secondarily) for encumbrance, it's primarily used for combat, jumping, breaking things, climbing, and escaping, so a lot of what you might call "agility" is wrapped up in the Str score. Dex is more like a steady hand and reacting quickly to danger. So it wouldn't really make sense to me.

But I think it's likely a wizard will "attack" with his powers using Int, we already know paladins smite with Cha, and it seems likely that rogues will sneak attack with Dex.

 

[Silverblade The Ench]

Well, I know I can hit a lot harder and more effectively than most folk from strength as I'm much broader/heavier built than most people, and my 300+lb human-gorilla mate can KO most twerps with just a slap...he can throw me around like a pillow, lol.

We had a D&D arguement once...a friend, built like a chip (french fry to Americans, he weaighed about 100lb soakign wet) was arguing that it wasn't fair his 22 or so strength fighter,was getting out wrestled by a troll with 19 or so strength...to which I explained it was also MASS vs strength. He kept moaning, so our human-gorilla mate, picked him up, held him by one ankle and bounced his head of the floor.

"SEE? MASS DOES COUNT!" he said.
lol

Most folk simply could NOT block attacks from my big pal. Nor could most lightly build folk stop hits from me. Skill though is an important factor, but very few folk are Steven Seagal!

Defence is a mix of armour and shields stopping blwos hurting you (damage reduction), dodging completely out of the way, moving so blows slide off harmlessly,and blocking the blow or redirectign its energy etc.

When something can hit REALLY hard, the ability to block or soak is reduced.
For example, an ordinary person trying to block a blow from a troll wil simply get his shield/weapon/arm smashed down and into himself.

I can see a semi-mystical monk being able to block such a blow though, it's heroic fantasy and I've seen some pretty amazing stuff done by true masters.

So, Strength should give a bonus to hit, imho

 

[eamon]

A strong person can swing a weapon faster and with more percision because they aren't impeded by the bulk of the weapon as much as a weaker person is. so a fighter with STr of X+4 is much better then a fighter of STR X at getting the dmage dealign part of the weapon where he wants when he wants, thus showing being strong makes it easier for strong person to hit an unarmored monk.

JDJ is blathering it right ;-)

just try swinging around a six foot steel bar sometime - quickly, too! That takes a lot of strength. Just moving your arms quickly takes strength. It does not, generally, take a lot of Fingerspitzengefühl - unless you're trained at it.

Sure, the D&D mechanic is vastly oversimplified, but it's the right idea. Better than using dex, that's for sure - and Dex is powerful as is, anyhow.

 

[Henry]

JDJ is blathering it right ;-)

just try swinging around a six foot steel bar sometime - quickly, too! That takes a lot of strength. Just moving your arms quickly takes strength. It does not, generally, take a lot of Fingerspitzengefühl - unless you're trained at it.

Sure, the D&D mechanic is vastly oversimplified, but it's the right idea. Better than using dex, that's for sure - and Dex is powerful as is, anyhow.

When I was younger, I used to tend toward the whole "dex = to hit in all cases" thing, but as I became more familiar with sports of various kinds (I was never very athletic, but had lots of friends who went into Baseball, Track, and Tennis) I found out how much strength training was to becoming a better athlete, and most of it had to do with control. Strength does indeed equal accuracy and control -- or at the least factors greatly into it.