Strongholds?

[kigmatzomat]

All HLC are de facto immune to local law.

HLCs that welsh on debts aren't heroes. At best they are bullies and at worst they are monsters. Monsters have CR.

HLC may in fact be beyond the reach of local law but if they act like it then they cease to be "heroes" and become "brigands." Even if they take over from the existing law, it's a fine line beyond "benevolent guardian" and "self-appointed tyrant."

 

[Twowolves]

Is anyone else reading this thread and wondering how a King got to BE King (and stay that way) if he can't muster enough resources to deal with a group of 4 tax-evading, law-flaunting, so-called "heroes"?

Low to mid-level PCs are hired to take care of threats to the town/fief/county/shire because the Adults In Charge have more pressing matters to deal with. When the PCs become a Pressing Matter, the powers-that-be turn their attention to them. And no, the PCs don't just walk out and take a job for the local Liche-Lord. At least, not "heroic" PCs. Not to mention the fact that Lawful PCs should happily, you know OBEY the LAW. Or maybe next time the local church won't raise Bob from the dead no matter how many diamonds the PCs wave at them.

 

[robertliguori]

Is anyone else reading this thread and wondering how a King got to BE King (and stay that way) if he can't muster enough resources to deal with a group of 4 tax-evading, law-flaunting, so-called "heroes"?

The underlying assumption is that none of said PCs (or analogous NPCs) have decided to become king via the traditional method (military conquest).

Low to mid-level PCs are hired to take care of threats to the town/fief/county/shire because the Adults In Charge have more pressing matters to deal with. When the PCs become a Pressing Matter, the powers-that-be turn their attention to them.

This assumes that the PCs aren't the adults in charge, which, if you have the PCs leveling faster than the PtBs, will eventually turn out to be true.

Of course, the PCs can also simply set up contingencies such that challenging them will result in mass devastation for the PtBs; after their first botched dealing-with results in a constant stream of undead and bound fiends ravaging the countryside, all with polite notes indicating that the mass deaths stop when the PCs get their land and their privacy back, one would expect said PtBs to focus more on keeping the adventurers happy than the bursars, as indicated above.

And no, the PCs don't just walk out and take a job for the local Liche-Lord. At least, not "heroic" PCs. Not to mention the fact that Lawful PCs should happily, you know OBEY the LAW.

Why not, if the current government is gunning for them? Come to that, why not just declare themselves a nation-state, and become their own law? If it's good enough for the PtBs, it's good enough for the PCs, after all.

Or maybe next time the local church won't raise Bob from the dead no matter how many diamonds the PCs wave at them.

"Absolutely not! I cannot countenance the-"
"Charm Person."
"...Even for my best friend Bob, I cannot disobey the dictates of my church."
"OK. We won't ask you to."
"Thank you."
"Dominate Person. We're telling you to."

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

The hypothetical conflict between mayor and heroes doesn't play out the way many are describing in my experience. The Mayor is a politician and will act within their capabilities. The heroes will do their stuff and community benefits may well follow, encouraging exceptional exemptions. Mayors vs heroes only works at lower levels and at higher levels it become a case of so what? 11th level heroes smacking up the Mayor of a village are actually confronting the hierarchy of the land. The village isn't going to be the problem - unless the adventure is in FR.

Regardless.

My character has developed a stronghold and it's very cool.

The actual fortifications and garrison are not to stop a determined attack from a foe that is a credible threat to the heroes. No. Rather they are designed to force the foe to expend a portion of their resources to bypass it, while revealing at least a portion of their capabilities, and exposing themselves to a poor positioning on the battlefield, of the defenders choosing.

The stronghold can offer the defender: superior line of sight, height, cover, time to buff, better maneauverability, flight platforms etc... The attacker otoh is constantly inconvenienced, which may dissuade a similarly powerful foe from chancing thier luck.

The stronghold will function normally versus the standard humanoid invaders. In effect the rank and file fighting each other acts as an environment for the warring heroes to battle each other in. A hero needs to be careful not to reveal their hand on the many tempting diversions. Basically the 5th level fireball caster is smart enough to know that their first fireball may be their last once it reveals their presence.

A recent battle we fought versus a Red Dragon and his half Dragon sorceror rider was above my hero's stronghold. We were able to flee within to escape the flames and heal. My hero's cohort was able to discretely counterspell through the arrow slits, and we were able to sally forth from the different towers. It also encouraged me to better design the towers.

OoC the stronghold has become a place to defend. That means it needs to be threatened but at the same time it is an invaluable hook for a style of play and thus should not be destroyed. The defensive adventure is pretty cool.

As for taxes and fealty, well, the stronghold in a Greyhawk type world comes packaged in politics, patronage and tithes. The financial situation should be a nett win but with heavy costs cutting into the revenues. My hero's stronghold has less of the above because it is well beyond the borders of civilisation. That has meant he had to cut costs by allying with Gnomes, Dwarves and the resident Druid. Oh well, that's D&D, everything's included.

 

[Balgus]

My group started at lvl 16 or so... We got the weapons we wanted.. and found that there wasnt enough treasure that the DM was willing to dole out to satiate out purses.

So he let us dump our piles of gold into a fortress...

Too bad we only started buiding when the group dissolved... tragic...