D&D 5E Suggestions on modifying 5e to give characters more bonuses

[Xantherion]

We used 4d6, getting my group to do point buy is pulling teeth.

I agree wholeheartedly, if you start off with very high stats that leveling up is less satisfying. The two players to me seem to be the type to play with the subsystems of the game. They love coming up with feat chain combos, Class / Prestige class combo, playing with all the fiddly bits. Right now 5e does not fill that itch.

See that is awesome about the familiar. My players have not fully grasped what you can do with your abilities as of yet. Haven't grasped all the nuances of the combinations you can pull off.

They see things like their save DC's are lower than they are used to, I am like everything is lower. Yes your spell DC might be low, but so is what the opponent gets to roll.

 

[Xantherion]

I was reading the Princess of the Apocalypse adventure. I loved the stat blocks for the elemental princes. They were challenging but are easy to run. I find that this system is incredibly easy to run, and has gotten me to run a game after taking a 4 year break. I will pretty much do what I have to, to get my players to keep letting me run this ruleset.

 

[ad_hoc]

We used 4d6, getting my group to do point buy is pulling teeth.

I agree wholeheartedly, if you start off with very high stats that leveling up is less satisfying. The two players to me seem to be the type to play with the subsystems of the game. They love coming up with feat chain combos, Class / Prestige class combo, playing with all the fiddly bits. Right now 5e does not fill that itch.

See that is awesome about the familiar. My players have not fully grasped what you can do with your abilities as of yet. Haven't grasped all the nuances of the combinations you can pull off.

They see things like their save DC's are lower than they are used to, I am like everything is lower. Yes your spell DC might be low, but so is what the opponent gets to roll.

It is a different game and should be treated that way (you appear to understand that). I think this is something to be handled in session 0. Since you are past that, it is probably worthwhile to take 30 minutes (or even more) at the beginning of a session and discuss what everyone's goals for the game are. What do you really want out of it?

You could all start at level 20 with 30 in every stat if you really wanted to. That would give you high numbers. But probably not very satisfying.

Maybe you should go over the math of 5e. Explain why Point Buy is so important. Explain the design goals and the three pillars of play. Social and Exploration are each supposed to be equal to Combat.

Also explain that the characters will not be gods as quickly as they are in 3.x. At 10th level a bunch of orcs can still kill them. That is on purpose to make the world make sense and give more variety in encounters. It also means that a party of 3rd level characters can kill a CR 8 dragon. So it goes both ways.

 

[yipwyg42]

That is good advice.

This is the second campaign we are on. I think the two players are currently stuck on combat pillar.

They just hit level 4. Going to work hard on making sure the 3 pillars are fully supported and have plenty of opportunities for the characters to shine. And show what this system can do.

 

[CapnZapp]

Can it be that most of you responding isn't addressing the real issue here?

To me it's obvious bounded accuracy, not individual level or class benefits, is what those players are experiencing.
To rephrase the OPs question:

Can you remove or at least slacken BA in this edition? And if you do, will the game survive it?

One answer would be to point out how magic bonuses can make a significant difference. Only problem is if players feel this to be external to the characters; that is, if you don't feel your items to be an integral part of your character's power up.

So then the question becomes things like:
Can the system handle, say, me doubling the proficiency bonus span? (+2 to +12)

What about the "lost" quadratic power up for spellcasters? (More high level slots, less restrictive concentration etc)

Ultimately, the question is: can this be the edition for these friends of mine?

 

[Shiroiken]

My players are not ready to abandon 5e yet, it is now up to me to prove that this system is good, and be able to run future games using it.

No it isn't. 5E IS a great system, but it's not great for everyone. Having talked with a lot of people who favor different editions, I've found that 3E/Pathfinder players have the hardest time enjoying 5E. That is because 3E/Pathfinder rewards system mastery and provides players a plethora of options and abilities at almost every level, leading to numerous "builds."

Players who are more interested in their "build" than in their character as characters (i.e. more than just numbers on paper), will find 5E wanting. In addition to the shortage of options (normal in all new editions), 5E is slated to have much fewer "crunch" options than previous editions. 5E is much more about the characters as CHARACTERS than "builds," but not everyone enjoys this. And that's OK. If your players prefer 3E/Pathfinder, they are better off playing that than staying with 5E and being unhappy.

If you want to spice things up, the Proficiency Die variant from the DMG is very good for this, and will show the difference in power between apprentice (1d4) and master (1d12) quite well.

Something else to consider is that ability scores are far more powerful now, so the "need" to have an 18 in an ability score is quite minor (best analogy would be "16 is the new 18"). If you use the correct DCs for ability checks, characters with 18s and 20s will succeed far more often than most (with 14s and 16s). Sometimes this has the opposite effect of course, where players demand that they "need" 20s because then they're the "best."

 

[pogre]

Gaining HD and hp seem like a big jump up to me.

I think CapnZapp hit your trouble on the head - and I think bounded accuracy is something you are "stuck" with in 5e.

 

[Jester David]

Show them. Put them up against an encounter they faced at level 2 that gave them a hard time. Or a mega goblin encounter.

 

[Celtavian]

The party consists of the following

Elf Fey warlock with chain pact.
Elf Rogue arcane trickster
Half-Elf Paladin of the Ancients.

The player who plays the paladin has no issues with the system.

Funny, but not surprising. Paladin is probably the best class with a little bit of everything except arcane caster utility spells.

The player who plays the warlock has an issue with the proficiency bonus only goes from +2 to +6. Given 20 stat, he does not see a significant difference from 1st level having a +6 proficiency bonus, to a 20th level character having +11. He wants a bigger difference between apprentice and master as far as bonus rolled.

This is an intentional part of the new rules to make it so an orc is still a threat to a high level party. It's known as Bounded Accuracy. It's a major part of the new system that will help you as a DM make more interesting encounters without having to spend a huge amount of time constantly prepping high level creatures.

The one playing an arcane trickster feels that characters that the feel of the character gaining power is to slow. In pathfinder just about anything you take, even if it is marginal makes you more powerful, and he can see it. He does not at this point see it in 5e, yes you get more hp and such but.

Arcane tricksters gets powerful. Did you take Stealth and Perception Expertise? Makes scouting an amazing option for the rogue.

Then you have me, I love the system. I love that creatures have more of a shelf life, love that they separated magic item from being needed by characters, it is now a straight power bonus. The only issue I have with it, is I want more support now. This is the system that I wanted for years now. I just wish now that the system I want is out, that it had/has the same level of support from earlier editions.

My players are not ready to abandon 5e yet, it is now up to me to prove that this system is good, and be able to run future games using
it.

You and me both. Need some more books.

 

[Psikerlord#]

I think your players just need more time to adjust to 5e's bounded accuracy - or they simply prefer pathfinder/3e without bounded accuracy.

Personally I think BA is one of 5e's awesome things. But it isn't for everyone.

Maybe throw more magic items at them. Or make prof bonus up to +8. I don't think it will break anything, esp if you give monsters extra bonuses too.