D&D 3E/3.5 Sundering a bow in 3.5

[Hypersmurf]

Yup. That's the way the SRD reads as well.

You can use a melee attack with a slashing or bludgeoning weapon to strike a weapon or shield that your opponent is holding.

For what it is worth the SRD says that sunder replaces a melee attack.

Well, this is already addressed in the other thread, so I won't repeat it all here

-Hyp.

 

[heliopolix]

If you're trying to sunder a weapon or shield use the following steps ... [followed by a chart of weapon HP and Hardness, including projectile weapons]

Strictly by the RAW, the archer still gets to make his attack roll, because it doesnt explicity exclude ranged weapons from the chart, or state that the opposed rolls are both melee rolls. The attacking roll definitely is a melee attack, but the opposed one is just an "attack roll".

I agree that this is idiotic though, and would definitely house rule that the attack would need to be a melee attack roll, imposing a -4 penalty for it being an improvised melee weapon, and would also rule that it would be a One-Handed improvised melee weapon.

A similar(and IMHO supporting) situation is sundering a javelin. Its a one handed simple ranged weapon that can be used in melee at a -4 penalty, since that is not how it is intended to be used (description, PHB 3.5 Pg. 118). I would say that that describes the bow in melee pretty well, within the limitations of the rules system. The javelin would use a melee attack to oppose the sunder, and have to accept the -4 penalty. I argue for a similar resolution to bow sundering.

If I was feeling particularly generous, I would allow the archer to use a BAB + Dex roll, as I imagine the archer would be attempting to swing his weapon out of the way of the longsword, rather than try to meet the blow solidly so as to avoid damage to the weapon(as the opposed melee rolls are attempting to simulate). I still wouldnt allow any weapon focus / enhancement bonuses to the roll since the add to helping you place arrows in your target accurately, not keep your bow out of reach of some longsword.

Anyways, enough rambling from me for now.

Cya on the flip side.
Jeff

 

[Jeff Wilder]

There's a hyper-specialized archer in my group that's gonna by cryin' himself to sleep soon. I've been saving up some Sundering enemies as a special treat...

I've had two serious archers in my game. The first got his bow sliced in half at least six times ... he never seemed to be able to figure a way to keep it from happening. The second only had it happen once or twice, but because he suffered it with dignity (no whining), I arranged for the group to find three vials of "Steelwood."

"What does this do?" the archer asked, as the group consulted a druid with some alchemy skill.

"It makes wood as hard as adamantine."

So they took to calling the stuff "Viagra Juice," and to this day -- after yet another bow bit the dust -- the archer has not yet considered applying the stuff to his bow.

Sometimes players get what they deserve.

 

[Inconsequenti-AL]

I've had two serious archers in my game. The first got his bow sliced in half at least six times ... he never seemed to be able to figure a way to keep it from happening. The second only had it happen once or twice, but because he suffered it with dignity (no whining), I arranged for the group to find three vials of "Steelwood."

"What does this do?" the archer asked, as the group consulted a druid with some alchemy skill.

"It makes wood as hard as adamantine."

So they took to calling the stuff "Viagra Juice," and to this day -- after yet another bow bit the dust -- the archer has not yet considered applying the stuff to his bow.

Sometimes players get what they deserve.

Not meaning to pick, but does the player think it would make the bow impossible to draw?

 

[Inconsequenti-AL]

If attacking a bow is made as an attack against a held object, rather than a sunder attempt, then can any bow be damaged by any sword?

To clarify - AFAIK, a +2 sword cannot sunder a +3 sword - is that written into sunder, or simply object damage?

As it wouldn't be a sunder attack, would a regular greataxe be able to sunder a magic bow?

 

[Artoomis]

If attacking a bow is made as an attack against a held object, rather than a sunder attempt, then can any bow be damaged by any sword?

To clarify - AFAIK, a +2 sword cannot sunder a +3 sword - is that written into sunder, or simply object damage?

As it wouldn't be a sunder attack, would a regular greataxe be able to sunder a magic bow?

The Sage has just clarified this (the rules contradict themselves at least on hardness and hit points for magic wepons).

Any weapon can attempt to sunder any other weapon. However, magic weapon get +2 hardness and +10 hit points per "+".

Thus, a +5 weapon needs to be hit with 60 points to destroy it, or 50 with an adamantine weapon, which ignores hardness.

Edit: Fixed the math. It was early!!

 

[Stalker0]

The Sage has just clarified this (the rules contradict themselves at least on hardness and hit points for magic wepons).

Any weapon can attempt to sunder any other weapon. However, magic weapon get +2 hardness and +10 hit points per "+".

Thus, a +5 weapon needs to be hit with 150 points to destroy it, or 100 with an adamantine weapon, which ignores hardness.

Can someone get my a page reference on that increase to hardness and hp for magic weapons. I knew they cahnged it in 3.5 but I couldn't find it for the life of me.

 

[MorganKiller]

Uhm...
Can anybody explain me the math behind Artoomis' numbers?
I still can't find a way for a weapon (medium sized) to have 100hp with a +5 enhanchement and what about its hardness?

+2 hardness * 5 = +10

and

+10 hp * 5 = +50

(Anyway adamantine weapons ignore hardness only if it's below 20 IIRC.)
So?

That longbow user has better to find a good alternative weapon if he finds a guy with Sunder... His +5 longbow will last a couple of rounds...

 

[Ovinomancer]

Hey, Thanks for weighing in on this guys! I appreciate the help. I wanted to know for my own game in case it came up. I think I got a little to heated about it for my DM to listen to me on this for awhile though... must remember to have my cleric follower cast calm emotions more often.

 

[LGodamus]

There is also an elven bow that is weighted to be used as a melee weapon..that would help some with the sunder attempt since it would not be just a held object anymore..