D&D 5E Supplemental books: Why the compulsion to buy and use, but complain about it?

[Mistwell]

Number one, it's not unmoderated. It is moderated, just a lot less strictly than this one.

Dude, it's not moderated. I've been there since day one, almost every day, for a decade. It's not moderated, period. It has some admins, but admins are not moderators. They will delete spam, and that's about it.

Post neo-Nazi screeds and see how long they stay up. Hate speech is against the TOS at CM.

Uh, every heard of the user PWD? You are free to post neo-nazi stuff if you want. Nobody will moderate you. Go ahead, try it. You want to post racist screeds, nobody will delete your post or warn you for it or take other moderator action. You will, however, get piled on from the other users there. If you're OK with that, then be my guest. It really isn't moderated.

Number two, the existence of an exception does not really make much of a difference. For every lightly moderated forum that's fun to post in, you have a thousand 4Chan's.

You made an absolute statement, so one exception does in fact prove you were in error. Elf Witch has been asking you to stop making absolutist statements. It's not helping. In addition, I'd say about half the boards I've been to that were unmoderated are also not toxic. For instance, ClipperTalk.com is unmoderated but not at all toxic.

 

[prosfilaes]

On a varied note, besides Die Fudging, DMs can also, for whatever reason
- Hit Point fudge (last second add an extra 10 hit points, for one more round of action with the BBEG), grant abilities/features, insert action point/s...etc.
I suppose this is also off-limits by the open-die crowd?

Ick. As a player, I find it makes me miserable when I feel like nothing the PCs do matters; we do incredibly awesome, and the DM fudges for the monster, and we do incredibly horrible and the DM fudges for us. Why do we spend all this time playing out the battle if all the dramatic results are going to be smoothed away for us?

 

[Sadras]

Ick. As a player, I find it makes me miserable when I feel like nothing the PCs do matters; we do incredibly awesome, and the DM fudges for the monster, and we do incredibly horrible and the DM fudges for us. Why do we spend all this time playing out the battle if all the dramatic results are going to be smoothed away for us?

Absolutely agree, also a player should not know (so as not to feel miserable)
I was just putting it out there that die fudges are but one aspect of possible DM fudging. I cannot say I have not been guilty of it, but it certainly is not the norm for me, more often than not the only fudge I do - is similar to Hussar, when the fight is overwhelmingly in the PCs favour - I just narrate the end and skip the die rolling to accelerate the story since actual game time is always constraint.

 

[Hussar]

Dude, it's not moderated. I've been there since day one, almost every day, for a decade. It's not moderated, period. It has some admins, but admins are not moderators. They will delete spam, and that's about it.



Uh, every heard of the user PWD? You are free to post neo-nazi stuff if you want. Nobody will moderate you. Go ahead, try it. You want to post racist screeds, nobody will delete your post or warn you for it or take other moderator action. You will, however, get piled on from the other users there. If you're OK with that, then be my guest. It really isn't moderated.



You made an absolute statement, so one exception does in fact prove you were in error. Elf Witch has been asking you to stop making absolutist statements. It's not helping. In addition, I'd say about half the boards I've been to that were unmoderated are also not toxic. For instance, ClipperTalk.com is unmoderated but not at all toxic.

Guess you didn't read the Terms of Service:

Forum Rules

Registration to Circvs Maximvs is free! We do insist that you abide by the rules below. If you agree to the rules, please check the 'I agree' checkbox and press the 'Register' button below.

We don't have many rules here, although if you piss off the admins too much you might be asked to leave. We're generally pretty moderator-light, though. We don't look kindly on harrassment of staff, impersonation of real people, attempts to access private forums (such as the women-only forum) or the public posting of private messages and emails, or cross-board drama. Or, if you publically declare you're leaving and not coming back, we might force you to keep your word.

Other than that, you're pretty much free to say what you want, however you want to, about any topic you wish, subject to occasional arbitrary decisions by the admins. Think of it like a private member's club.

 

[billd91]

Ick. As a player, I find it makes me miserable when I feel like nothing the PCs do matters; we do incredibly awesome, and the DM fudges for the monster, and we do incredibly horrible and the DM fudges for us. Why do we spend all this time playing out the battle if all the dramatic results are going to be smoothed away for us?

Maybe because all of the effort the players have gone through shouldn't necessarily be thrown away because of a hot streak on the dice? I mean if you want the ultimate expression of "nothing the PCs do matters" - that's what a TPK based on a series of unlucky rolls might be. A player could make all the right moves and still throw a 1 on the d20 leading to a total failure. Should all those right moves be ignored because the dice say so? How exactly is that making sure the things the PCs do matter?

By fudging a bit as a GM, I can help those preparations, those good decisions, and the things the PCs do matter when the dice don't.

 

[prosfilaes]

Absolutely agree, also a player should not know (so as not to feel miserable)

Just because you think the players don't know doesn't mean they really don't.

I mean if you want the ultimate expression of "nothing the PCs do matters" - that's what a TPK based on a series of unlucky rolls might be.

I don't have a strong stand against fudging die rolls, but luck is part of the game. Given a choice between knowing that no matter what we do, the BBEG will stand for 4 or 5 rounds, and knowing that depending on luck we might be able to kill him before he gets to act or he might kill us, I'd take the latter. Suffering at the hands of fate is fair game; being puppets being led on to a predetermined conclusion isn't.

 

[billd91]

Suffering at the hands of fate is fair game; being puppets being led on to a predetermined conclusion isn't.

How is the GM fudging to ensure that a well-laid player plan succeeds equal to the players "being puppets being led on to a predetermined conclusion"?

 

[Mistwell]

Guess you didn't read the Terms of Service:

Which has nothing to do with whether it's actually moderated or not. It's not moderated. I told you, go ahead and try, and you will find you won't be moderated. I don't know why you're disagreeing with me on this - it's not a theoretical question, it's a yes or no factual question. Factually speaking, CM is not moderated. Period. There is NO moderator, at all. It has an extremely small number of admins, but they don't do anything aside from get rid of spam.

And let's get real here - the type of stuff you're talking about, the toxic atmosphere, none of that has anything to do with the list of "rules" (which are not enforced) you posted - if it were true then CM would be toxic with or without those extremely limited (and unenforced) rules. You're dodging the issue, and frankly it's telling me something about the larger argument going on here. It's looking a heck of a lot more like you're here to "win" an argument, find ways to slither out of ever admitting you might be wrong on a point, as opposed to have an honest debate about the topic.

In which case...you lose.

 

[prosfilaes]

I don't have a strong stand against fudging die rolls, but luck is part of the game. Given a choice between knowing that no matter what we do, the BBEG will stand for 4 or 5 rounds, and knowing that depending on luck we might be able to kill him before he gets to act or he might kill us, I'd take the latter. Suffering at the hands of fate is fair game; being puppets being led on to a predetermined conclusion isn't.

How is the GM fudging to ensure that a well-laid player plan succeeds equal to the players "being puppets being led on to a predetermined conclusion"?

I feel you're strawmanning me here. I literally wrote "I don't have a strong stand against fudging die rolls". I've been discussing very clearly the concept that the game is to be rigged, not only so that the PCs can't lose, but they can't win dramatically, not the occasional fudging "to ensure that a well-laid player plan succeeds".

 

[billd91]

I feel you're strawmanning me here. I literally wrote "I don't have a strong stand against fudging die rolls". I've been discussing very clearly the concept that the game is to be rigged, not only so that the PCs can't lose, but they can't win dramatically, not the occasional fudging "to ensure that a well-laid player plan succeeds".

You are the one who juxtaposed "suffering at the hands of fate" with "puppets being led on to a predetermined conclusion" in response to my post. That doesn't seem to offer much of a middle ground.