Sweet Spot in AD&D1

[Bullgrit]

Forked from: No "wider" Sweet Spot in 4E after all?

. . . I recently saw a list of all the 4E Dungeon adventures by level. Guess what? About half of the adventures fall between late heroic and early paragon. In other words, levels 8-12. . . .

Where was the sweet spot for AD&D1?

AD&D1 adventure module levels:
A1-4 – 4-7
C1 – 5-7
C2 – 5-7
C3 – 1-4
C4 – 4-7
C5 – 4-7
C6 – 4-8
D1-2 – 9-14
D3 – 10-14
EX1 – 9-12
EX2 – 9-12
G1-3 – 8-12
H1 – 15+
H2 – 16-18
H3 – 17-20
H4 – 18-100
I1 – 4-7
I2 – 5-7
I3 – 5-7
I4 – 6-8
I5 – 7-9
I6 – 5-7
I7 – 4-8
I8 – 8-10
I9 – 8-10
I10 – 8-10
I11 – 8-10
I12 – 5-9
I14 – 1-15
L1 – 2-4
L2 – 2-5
I3* – 3-6
N1 – 1-3
N2 – 2-4
N3 – 1-4
N4 – 0-1
N5 – 0-3
Q1 – 10-14
S1 – 10-14
S2 – 5-10
S3 – 8-12
S4 – 6-10
T1 – 1-? (“Introductory to Novice Level”)
T1-4 – takes characters from 1 to 8
U1 – 1-3
U2 – 1-4
U3 – 3-5
UK1 – 4-7
UK2 – 2-5
UK3 – 3-6
UK4 – 3-5
UK5 – 1
UK6 – 5-7
UK7 – 7-9
WG4 – 5-10
WG5 – 9-12

Note: There are some mods missing from the above list -- either they were not "generic" (e.g. Oriental Adventures) or weren't really a single adventure module (e.g. many Forgotten Realms supplements) or I couldn't find the level range in my search (e.g. Dragonlance mods).

I did the research, someone else feel free to run the numbers from the data. Just eyeballing the list, it looks like 4-8 was the most common levels published adventures were made for.

Bullgrit
Total Bullgrit

 

[S'mon]

4-8 nails the 1e sweet spot I'd say; maybe 3-8.

 

[tankschmidt]

My definition of sweet spot is the range of levels for which the game plays well without becoming frustrating for the players or more importantly for the DM as he is designing challenges for the party. For that reason, I'd say the AD&D sweet spot is levels 1-14 or so. After that point, the wizard characters just become too powerful, and it's time for everyone to retire. Levels 1-2 (you might include level 3 in there too) play out pretty differently than levels 4-14, but I have to include them in the "sweet range" because they're my favorite part of the game. I understand that some players find the frequent deaths that come with those levels to be frustrating, but I've always enjoyed that facet of play.

If you're looking at the level distribution of TSR-published modules, you'll notice that this range is well-covered.

 

[MerricB]

The sweet spot for 1e starts at level 5, because it's at that point that Magic-Users finally get fireball and their other major spells and they have enough spell casting ability to be significant.

At about level 10, the nature of the game changes significantly as fighter and thieves (especially) begin to fall away compared to the wizard; the game there seems to be designed more for solo play (one player with henchmen).

So, levels 5-9 are the sweet spot, although 10-12 are just a little behind.

Cheers!

 

[grodog]

So, levels 5-9 are the sweet spot, although 10-12 are just a little behind.

I'll agree conceptually with Merric, although I'd likely broaden the range to being from levels 3 to 15 or so. Even high-level MUs are quite manageable if DMs haven't been giving them an open book for spell selection

 

[Celebrim]

I think that 2nd to 10th is a good strong sweet spot for most classes.

Above 10th level, a DM in 1st edition has to start taking away things from the players to maintain the challenge.

I think that 7th through 12th is a good sweet spot for wizards. Below 7th, wizards just don't have enough to do. Above 12th, when the 6th level spells start coming online the fireballs get big enough to fry most anything in the game and the spells start getting numerous enough to sling several in each combat, the wizard finds themselves able to just blast through everything.

But I don't agree that the other classes start to fall away. Sure, a thief doesn't really have much to do past 9th level or so, and a cleric by that point is mostly just a walking hit point battery; but, Ranger, Paladin, and even Fighter are very survivable and effective in 1st edition above 10th level. M-U's are drastically outclassed in hit points by other classes in 1st edition. A 15th level M-U might only have 30 hit points, no combat ability to speak of, and has pretty poor saving throws compared to the other classes.

Hit points for a M-U are so low in 1st edition that it is extremely hard to obtain high level legitimately. When your 15th level wizard is vulnerable to the same attacks that your 5th level fighter was vulnerable to, you don't really getty that cocky or you die. You're basically one nasty trap, a couple of hurled boulders, or one dragon breath from death.

 

[jdrakeh]

I dunno. In my own experience, the 'sweet spot' seemed to range from Level 3 (anything lower than that, and it seemed that couldn't accomplish much without dying) to Level 9 (anything greater than that, and the Magic User seemed to steal the spotlight).

The thing was, and it may have just been how my DMs handled XP, but it could take years of actual play for a character to gain three levels. This being the case, the AD&D 1e sweet spot was a lot more fulfilling for me (as a player) than either the 3x sweet spots.*

I'm currently not playing D&D, so I never got to experience the 4e sweet spot.

 

[Ycore Rixle]

The thing about 1e is that it was assumed that the DM would adjust things strongly for his own campaign. I mean, I was just reading today in the 1e DMG about spellcasting in combat, and Gygax left the door open for DM's to rule out all spellcasting in combat, if that's what worked for you.

That said, the way 1e was and still tends to be most often played (which most definitely includes spellcasting in combat!), I'd say the sweet spot is 4th-11th or so, for most people, in most typical campaigns.

My 1e campaign played for years at levels 14-21 and was fantastic. The three main characters were a monk, a magic-user, and a cleric, however, and the first two are the two classes that Gygax specifically stated were probably the most powerful classes at high levels.

 

[Taureth]

I will -always- have a nostalgic fondness for 1st level 1E characters! (Okay, the campaign I first played actually had some elements of 2E and a sundry of other things too, but it was 1E AD&D -essentially.- )

That said, I would have to say 3rd - 7th. Players are still focusing on their character's personalities at that range 'cause they haven't acquired the heavy artillery, yet. You're also above the 1st & 2nd level danger zone. (which ends more at 4th or 5th level for a magic-user or someone unfortunate enough to have tried to play the hapless 1E monk class!)

I could extend that up to about 12th level, though, depending on my mood at the time.

 

[Ahglock]

I never really bumped into the sweet spot issue until 3e. I never felt the wizard outclassed the rest to the point where they were just henchman, well except maybe a single class thief.

They were more powerful at high levels, but weaker at low levels. And with their weaknesses the level they out powered others at high levels was not so large that it knocked it out of any sweet spot. At higher levels saves became trivial and magic resistance was much more effective in 1&2e than it was in 3e, which really stopped the mage from being a one man force. Heck I'd say in most fights the fighter was the driving force even at high levels. And in the 2e era the cleric was maybe the biggest powerhouse.