"Syndrome" Syndrome: or the Fallacy of "Special"

[TwinBahamut]

I think missed in this is that when Dash says "when everyone is special, no one will be," he thinks it's bad. When Syndrome says it, he thinks it's good.

Dash is the gifted athlete or student who sees everyone put through a mediocre challenge where everyone get the same little trophy or star. He's begging to be challenged for real.

Syndrome is the one charging $50 per head to enter a beauty contest and then gives every contestant a prize to make sure his customers don't get their feelings hurt and re-enter the contest next year.

It's interesting that the younger Syndrome had been discouraged from excelling with his amazing gifts as a child, too. Much like Dash had. His frustration turned to life-long rage, a direction it wouldn't have been too difficult imagining Dash heading down.

I could get real political about state enforced mediocrity and the fate of the super heroes in that movie - humiliated, beat down, and eventually rounded up and murdered - but I won't.

You are really making a mistake in equating Syndrome with "state enforced mediocrity".

Syndrome is absolutely not the guy going around making everyone feel good about themselves pointlessly. He is the guy paying everyone $50 to bow down, lick his boots, and sing his praises. He is the guy going around putting everyone down and trying to get people to adore him (and only him). He is an egomaniac.

Syndrome isn't a victim and perpetuator of some kind of "state enforced mediocrity". He isn't a person who had been discouraged from excelling at all. In fact, considering his staggering wealth, gigantic army of loyal minions, and incredibly destructive death machines, he has been mind-bogglingly successful in his application of his various talents. He isn't an incarnation of "the man" who forces superheroes to stay normal, he is the guy who is literally going around killing superheroes by giving them a second chance to use their powers. He is obsessed with the glory of superheroes and wants it for himself, he isn't interested in "bringing them down to his level" or anything like that. As I said above, I honestly have no idea where someone would even get the idea.

Syndrome isn't a warning about what happens if you check a child's talents, he is a warning about what happens if you don't check a child's self-centeredness and anger.

 

[Doug McCrae]

I know that it is currently in vogue to use the meme of Wizards that could do everything and make every other class feel bad, but that is just not the case.

They've been calling the wizard Batman for a long time on the WotC boards. Well before 4e. I believe it's a reference to the class's ability to solve any problem, given time to prepare. Likewise 'CoDzilla' has been around for ages.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

They've been calling the wizard Batman for a long time on the WotC boards. Well before 4e. Likewise 'CoDzilla'.

I have been on the WotC website since the early 3e days...

year one there was talk about broken monk and ubber fighter...both seamed so over the top in theory...then around 8-15 months in stories started of the 'win buttons' that were level 5+ spells.

I still remember at the same gencon that I got my 3.5 books at I talked to people who called druids a double character...you get your broken caster and your bad ass fighter as a pet...

C.o.D. zilla came out as a popular phrase around that time...

it orginaly ment Cleric or Druid zilla where the cleric could self buff to being a better fighter then a fighter and still have his spells, well the druid could do so easier...

latter when night sticks, and persistant spell came out and clerics could use them to have Divine X (the spell that was +1/3 caster level attack and damage as a luck bonus) Divine power (fighter base attack and +4 str) and Wrightus Might (up one size catagory) up all day for 1 casting each... yea so you have the ability to wear any armor, a fighter base attack, upto +6 attack and damge, and count as large...pluse still have your spells...

people then cryed "that is power creep not the class fault" and C.O.dzilla got a new meaning

COre Only...and that mostly ment the Druid. At X level (I want to say 7th) You could wild shape into a bear (lots of combat potantial) well calling down lightning and entangling (pretty good casting), and summoning more bears (more good combatabts) with your wolf body guard (equal to most equal level fighters)...

See PHB only games where not balanced...you could make 3 teirs of power characters...

 

[AllisterH]

At that part of the movie, we're focused on Dash communicating with his parents - largely communicating how happy he is. The fact that we don't see it doesn't mean that he isn't relating with his peers. Assuming he's not because of what we see on the screen seems a particularly myopic point of view.

Inference from WHAT exactly?

Do we ever see Dash wanting to interact with his peers other than beating them down in a foot race?

I could see one inferring if it had been VIOLET, but Dash, show some evidence.

 

[Set]

No, the argument there was that reducing people to the lowest common denominator was insulting to everyone, including the lowest common denominator.

Same deal in my book. Dash, you're not allowed to be as fast as you can be. Bob, you're not allowed to be the hero that you actually are, sit in this cubicle and do paperwork, when you could be saving lives, because *it upsets people* who don't have super-powers to see you out there doing things that they can never do.

That's pretty much exactly the message of Harrison Bergeron. You're too pretty, wear this mask. You move too gracefully, wear these weights to keep you off balance. You're too smart, wear this headset that makes annoying noises to disrupt your concentration, so that you won't hurt the feelings of the less smart people by showing off your genius.

Dash can't be fast, he has to be hobbled. Bob can't use his strength, and instead is weighed down with his false identity as a normal guy. Violet can't learn self-confidence, because she's trapped in a life built on self-denial and deliberately repressing her potential to excel, so that the gifts and talents that a young person should be able to be proud of, she has to hide, like a shameful dirty secret.

It's totally Harrison Bergeron. Just with a happier ending and 100% more Samuel L. Jackson.

 

[FireLance]

It's totally Harrison Bergeron. Just with a happier ending and 100% more Samuel L. Jackson.

The nitpicking mathematician in me wants to know:

1. How much Samuel L. Jackson was there in Harrison Bergeron?
2. How much would 100% more of that be?

 

[Gunpowder]

Same deal in my book. Dash, you're not allowed to be as fast as you can be. Bob, you're not allowed to be the hero that you actually are, sit in this cubicle and do paperwork, when you could be saving lives, because *it upsets people* who don't have super-powers to see you out there doing things that they can never do.

Er, You do know that self control and sometimes yearning for a normal life are common themes in comics right? Superman lives in a world made of cardboard ( obligatory youtube link:YouTube - World of Cardboard) and loves being Clark Kent. His deepest desire? Living on a farm with wife Lois and son on Krypton (see for the man who has everything YouTube - For the Man Who Has Everything 2/3 couldn't find the first part). Spiderman's original motivation for crime fighting wasn't for power or glory but out of guilt for getting his uncle killed, who was in that situation because Parker was trying to cheat at a wrestling competition to make some money. And the second movie goes into how much easier Parker's life is without spiderman.

So Dash's problems weren't stemming from the man keeping him down but learning to live with his fellow human beings, not above them.

Also, what would Dash running a race at his full potential prove? Nothing. He needs his full potential when he is running across water away from minions piloting flying saucers equipped with machine guns and spinning blades of doom. Running the 100m sprint? the fact he could hold back is a bigger accomplishment considering that he could keep himself from putting tacks on his teacher's chair.

 

[roguerouge]

I forget: how many other superheroes are there at the end of the film? Do we celebrate just the one family, or does everyone become special (as other superheroes come out of the wood work or whatever).

I forget: do the normals do anything to help out in this film, or is just the specially powered ones?

If the normals don't help, then aren't we celebrating the special because no one but this family is special? At the end of the day, if I recall, the family gets to be normal as a reward for being special, while the normals in the film never get to be special.

In short, if I'm remembering correctly and using the OP's metaphor right, everyone's focused on the CoDzillas of the film because all of the characters are CoDzillas.

There's no Mary Jane, no crowd of ordinaries pitching in to help Spiderman in his final fight in the first film... (There are narratives that take the role of the normals quite seriously indeed. The Incredibles doesn't feature a Xander to save the world or a Giles to get the killing blow or a Charles Gunn to fight the good fight alongside the empowered.)

For our purposes, the only thing that makes someone worthy of our attention in The Incredibles is if they're powerful. Whatever the dialogue says, the underlying structure of the film could be seen to undermine its stated messages.

 

[Umbran]

Just to nitpick, I'd say that in this case, the line given to the villain or petulant child is the *antithesis* of the movie's message, so I'm going to assume we actually agree.

It looks like. If the word had come to me at the time, I might have used "antithesis". I used "some form of negation" because there are some folks about who would apply mathematical definitions to literary analysis, and the language could then get confusing.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Dash isn't "a petulant child", he's the voice of the movie. He's voicing the same thoughts that Bob has hidden, in an attempt to "fit in;" to "be normal." Dash's inability to cope with the mixed message of "do your best" while simultaneously being told, "don't be better than other people, though" is at the heart of the movie. When Syndrome expresses his desire, along with supervillian chortling, to make that bleak situation a reality for everyone, the ridiculousness and untenability of the scenario are highlighted.

At the end of the day, it also doesn't matter which character voiced the thought; the plot itself presents that as the main human drama conflict to be resolved, a bigger conflict in many ways than the more surface conflict with Syndrome and his organization; the real conflict is the ideology represented by Dash (and Bob) vs. that of Syndrome.

At the end, the superheroes are justified; they're allowed to come out of hiding and resume their superheroing duties, because victory over the tyranny of political correctness causing them to hide or not use their powers for fear of being better than the average person is assured.

Obsessing with who said a given line is completely beside the point.

Agree 100%. Especially the last line.

I would agree 110% were it possible.


RC