systems without levels or hp's

[GlassJaw]

I've come to the conclusion that levels and hp's are the two things that I'm not a huge fan of in d20/D&D. I like the d20 system but I've become interested more and more in systems (d20 or not) that don't have hp's or levels.

Can anyone recommend some systems that don't use levels or hp's?

Here are a few that I'm familiar with:

Shadowrun
Star Wars d6
Mutants & Masterminds
DC Heroes
Chaosium Call of Cthulhu (does it have hp's? I forget)

 

[The_Universe]

I don't think Exalted uses levels or hit points, but I don't remember for sure.

But Mutants and Masterminds is the best option (IMO) you have listed. It's a great game.

 

[JoeGKushner]

GURPS

Hero

 

[Gothmog]

Classic Deadlands is a great system with no levels or hit points. The updated version of Deadlands, for the Savage Worlds system is due out anytime too. Savage worlds is a rules-light to moderate rules game that can be adapted to any genre or setting, although it is a little cinematic for my tastes.

The new Warhammer FRP is a great game with no levels or classes (there are careers you progress through), and no massive ramping of character toughness like is found in D&D. WFRP is going to be the game of choice for my group from now on- the game is about ordinary to skilled people, not superheroes like D&D.

Ars Magica has no hit points, but rather wound levels, and is level and classless. The magic system is the best out there for any RPG, but wizards do tend to be very potent.

BRP Coc does have hit points, but they never go up, so it didn't bother me too much.

 

[Psion]

Chaosium Call of Cthulhu (does it have hp's? I forget)

That depends on what you are calling an HP. It has a damage rating that, if exceeded, leaves you unconscious or dying. But LOTS of systems have that sort of arrangement.

If you are speaking strictly of progressive HP, you have more options, and the question is almost redundant with level-less games.

As far as level-less games go, only a few non-d20/d20 derived games have levels, most notably Palladium's house system. (And even some d20-derived games sort of shuck off levels, like Mutants & Masterminds.)

 

[Henry]

Mutants and Masterminds DOES use levels, but in a very tangential sense.

You forgot GURPS, one of the last Grandaddies of levelless, classless systems left in production. GURPS uses 4 attributes (STR, DEX, IQ (intelligence), and HT(health)) advantages (kinda like feats), and skill levels, and is close enough to D&D in some terms that you could use a few mechanics with D&D, with some minor interpretation.

HEAVILY vulnerable to min-maxing, but any GM with a little experience, or conscientious players, can monitor that. Best of all, Generic means it's got setting books for everything from Prehistoric Cavemen to Far-Far-Far-Future settings.

Worth checking out!

Also, if you're into older games, there's Traveller, which is THE GRANDADDY of Classless and levelless. However, it's not currently available in original form. There's T20, which is a traveller D20 conversion.

 

[Henry]

That depends on what you are calling an HP. It has a damage rating that, if exceeded, leaves you unconscious or dying. But LOTS of systems have that sort of arrangement.

I don't mean to be a Smart Aleck, but they ARE called hit points in the game, too. But as Psion said, they don't progress unless your Constitution or Size changes, usually for the worse.

 

[Joker]

Alternity!!!!

Do a little dance, make a little love. Alternity...Alternity.

I love that system.

 

[Empress]

The Storyteller Games from White Wolf don't use levels or hit points. That'd be Vampire, Werewolf, Mage, Trinity, and a few others.

Seeing as I played these games for years, I can attest to their playability and fun!

 

[WayneLigon]

Also, if you're into older games, there's Traveller, which is THE GRANDADDY of Classless and levelless. However, it's not currently available in original form. There's T20, which is a traveller D20 conversion.

Far Future Enterprises produces compilations of all the old Classic Traveller material, bound into large landscape books. The first book has all the basic and advanced character creation and world generation stuff all in one (Books 0-8, which also includes the boko on building robiots). The Classic Supplements would probably be a good buy as well, since that has all the Imperium setting stuff in it I(both Library Data books as well) plus ship maps and a lot more.