tattoos, spikes, punk, and goth in D&D images?

[kenjib]

Hi Quasetron. One of the quotes in your original post was mine, and I fear that the meaning has been somewhat altered by quoting it out of context. In the context of that article, I specifically said that it was my preference only and even acknowledged that I am in the minority.

As regards your counter-example with Erol Otus, his works to me invoke the covers of Weird Tales magazine and I really love them. If you look through some of this artwork (you can find scans online) then perhaps you will see what I mean. 3e art definitely doesn't evoke the same. It evokes a different set of sources that doesn't "click" for me, despite the merits that other people find.

It's really that simple for me and in the context of my original post, were you to go back and examine it, you might also notice that I also explicitly stated that I liked the older feel because it invoked older literary influences as listed in the back of the 1e DMG. If you have access to a copy of the 1e DMG, or a good memory, you might note that many of the authors listed in the back of the DMG, not coincidentally, were prominent contributors to Wierd Tales magazine.

There is no contradiction in my statement and I stand by it.

 

[Painfully]

I'm resigned to the fact that the current artwork is the result of cutting costs at WotC. Cheap artwork means more cartoony pictures and NO background scenery. Apparently, artists that can draw landscapes cost more money.

*edit*
Mostly, I'm thinking of figures as seen in the WotC galleries, but Dragon Magazine's covers as well.

Compare those images to anything by Elmore or Parkinson (whom I consider as the most talented artists under TSR's lifetime) and how their figures looked much more believable as living, breathing creatures or persons.

The new 3e artwork is, "okay" but it has never come alive for me in the same way as many of Elmore's or Parkinson's paintings. Anyone who cares to look at the original Dragonlance artwork and tells me that they prefer 3e style artwork is going to get some strange looks from me.

*edit again*
What Jody (below) said.

 

[Jody Butt]

My main problem with the new art is that it has no context (no scenes), and simply looks cartoonish or impressionistic (same reason I hate Tony DiTerlizzi). When I look at a picture, I want to know what that critter or person looks like in that world, not some overly cartoonish, super-stylized, anime-ish looking tripe. IMO, Easley, Elmore, Parkinson, and some of the old crowd of painters will never be surpassed. I'm not even asking for historical medieval artwork (though that would be MUCH better than what we have now), but just more realistic depictions of characters.

So true.

99% of 3E artwork is total, low-brow crap (esp. WAR, Martin, BAXA).

I want realistic-looking artwork, not dungeonpunk, anime crap.

Did anyone see the most recent issue of Dungeon (or was it the second most recent issue)? EVERY picture in there was done in anime style. It made me vomit.

Do I want to play in the roleplaying game of "dungeonpunk superheroes in anime-land"? NO!

I want the art to portray a world that I would like to visit. I want it to look realsitic so that I could imagine myself being there. I don't want to imagine myself in a superhero cartoon . . . which is just what 3E is.

Parkinson, Caldwell, Easley, and Elmore are tops.

 

[Quasqueton]

Quick, drive-by posting, here.

I was not questioning people's taste or like/dislike of the current styles. I was specifically asking for examples of the spikes, punk/goth, tattoos that so many decry. Only one person so far has actually addressed that issue, but I haven't time yet to check those specific images out.

I don't think there is nearly as much of this stuff in the images as people claim. I again suggest that most people heaping the comments on D&D are not really looking at the images, but are just regurjitating what they've heard others say.

Prove me wrong by pointing out specific images in the core books that have the spikes, tattoos, and punk/goth styles. If you can't name more than two or three out of the dozens, you have no support for your claims.

Quasqueton

 

[Dark Jezter]

Frankly, I love the artwork of the new editions of D&D. IMO, they are much better than 1e and 2e artwork. I'm especially fond of the pictures drawn by Todd Lockwood and WAR. I'd also like to say that Draconomicon has the most impressive artwork I've ever seen in an RPG book.

Oh, and anybody who says that the artwork in 3.x looks anime-ish needs a reality check. If the 3.x artwork was anime-ish, then all of the men would look like women, and all the women would look about 14-years-old and be wearing schoolgirl outfits. Not to mention that the elves would have three-foot-long ears that stuck out horizontally from their heads.

 

[Jody Butt]

Quick, drive-by posting, here.

I was not questioning people's taste or like/dislike of the current styles. I was specifically asking for examples of the spikes, punk/goth, tattoos that so many decry. Only one person so far has actually addressed that issue, but I haven't time yet to check those specific images out.

I don't think there is nearly as much of this stuff in the images as people claim. I again suggest that most people heaping the comments on D&D are not really looking at the images, but are just regurjitating what they've heard others say.

Prove me wrong by pointing out specific images in the core books that have the spikes, tattoos, and punk/goth styles. If you can't name more than two or three out of the dozens, you have no support for your claims.

Quasqueton

It's not only the dungeonpunk stuff. It's also the heavily stylized, cartoonish/anime style. This is getting worse and worse. I can't even pick up a copy of Dungeon anymore. It makes me sick to my stomach.

WAR, Martin, and Baxa all do the stylized, cartoon crap. Martin is the worst offender. WAR is a close second.

Guay (sp?), Hou, and some others that I cannot remember are doing the anime crap.

 

[Wombat]

I must admit that most fantasy art turns me cold.

Why?

Well, who would actually go into battle with most of this stuff? Weapons with pointless cut-outs, spikes and flanges, not to mention too big and too weirdly balanced to be the least bit useful. Armour that doesn't cover vital areas and has more flares, spikes, and fiddly bits to pull the weapons in to hurt you more. The non-combat stuff bothers me far less (then it is a matter of aesthetic taste), but the combat stuff really, really bothers me.

Okay, I've lived around too many re-enactors (of periods ranging from Roman to Medieval to Thirty Years War to American Civil War) as well as armourers, blacksmiths, and swordsmiths, so I tend to be prejudiced towards the functional-over-fancy school...

 

[I'm A Banana]

It makes me sick to my stomach.

Then perhaps you're taking subjective art a bit too seriously, mate.

I'll admit 3e definately needs more 'scenery' style pictures; there's not that many of them.

Aside from that, some of the people who don't like the 'tone' of 3e art rub me the wrong way. I like it. Most people like it. Some people don't.

You don't need to be insulting about it. It's just a preference. It's like saying that a Hershey's bar is a cheap hack form a no-talent confectionary more concerned with profit than with quality, and the only TRUE chocolate is imported Sweedish gourmet stuff that was popular a few years ago, but has mostly fallen out of favor.

There's nothing WRONG with Hershey's. There's nothing BAD about art you don't like. You don't like it. Fine. That doesn't make it a hack-job, it just means you have a different opinion. There's a difference.

In my opinion, 3e art evokes action, fast-paced, quick and dirty, heroic, cinematic, defining encounters, filled with larger-than-life personalities and effects. And I think that's a good thing, because D&D for me is pretty much that.

Realism is overrated. Especially in D&D. Especially in art. Especially in D&D art.

 

[Melkor]

Maybe it's the fact that art is my job, and I see a ton of different styles on a daily basis (both at work, and my major hobby - RPGs), but I love things about both the new and old styles.

Erol Otus, Jeff Dee, and Bill Willingham inspired me to pick up a pencil and draw when I was a pre-teen.

Elmore shaped some of the way my Jr. High and High School campaigns "looked" in my mind.

I also think that some of the 3rd Edition art is amazing. Wayne Reynolds (WAR) is probably my favorite 3E artist. The Draconomicon was amazing in my opinion, but I can't say I liked a single picture out of the new Unearthed Arcana.

The low point for me was some of the "semi-realistic" crap that made it's way into 2nd Edition books.....I can open the first run 2nd Edition books, and the later black cover 2nd Edition books - and find several examples of craptastic art.....But even those are housed in beautifully illustrated Jeff Easley covers.....

Cheers.

 

[Tinker Gnome]

Well, as I have already said. I like the new artwork. Most of the old stuff looks really campy to me. I do not know why, but I just LIKE the more cartoonish feel of the new art.