D&D 5E Telekinesis Is A Bad Spell, For The Game

[Vaalingrade]

"Yeet"? What's that?

To throw or launch forcefully or comedically.

as D&D is and always has been centered on variants of the zero-to-hero path.

And it's about time that went away or became a sad variant tucked away in a forgotten splat, IMO.

I'd like to see it yeeted if you will.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

If that's the case, why not just refluff mage hand and unseen servant <edit: or Tenser's Floating Disc)>? On the latter, possibly give it a "at higher levels" that gives it more strength.

Which of those works like mage hand but for bigger stuff as you spend higher spell slots?

Easier, oftentimes, to just port from another game, or add a new thing.

 

[Quickleaf]

A couple thoughts on establishing "balance points" for assigning a level to telekinesis:

Breadth Not Depth: 5e's telekinesis gives more versatility than AD&D – it allows you to move creatures (not the case with AD&D's version) & it gives you fine motor control over things like tools. However, it has a little less versatility than d20 telekinesis.

But maybe that versatility could be broken away into other spells/powers, allowing for more "depth/power" to what each telekinetic-themed spell/power does.

For example, 5e's catapult is pretty similar to the "violent thrust" option of the d20 version of telekinesis.

Actually, regarding the comment about the Telekinetic feat's shove-at-range being weak... the d20 telekinesis spell had one of the options being "combat maneuver" which is almost what Telekinetic gives you (d20 has longer range & allowed you to grapple/disarm, whereas 5e is limited range shove but it's only a bonus action). Maybe a better description than "weak" would be that it's "circumstantial" – in the right environment / context, knocking a creature prone or pushing it off a ledge is awesome.

Falling Objects May Persist: 5e's telekinesis persists even if you drop an object on a creature, allowing you to drop multiple objects (or creatures) over its 10 minute duration. In contrast, in the AD&D version if you launched an object at a creature the spell ended (but damage was capped at 1 point/caster level).
...However, 5e AFAIK has still not codified how much damage a falling object deals, so without an agreed upon norm the exact power level of telekinesis is up for debate.

Party Flight. 5e's telekinesis can also be used to allow the whole party to fly on a hovering 1,000 lb object – same duration, same concentration as the fly spell, only it works for the whole party and it requires the caster's action to move at a slower speed. So if you're looking for reducing the level of telekinesis but maintaining this "party flight" aspect, bearing in mind what it does in comparison to 3rd level fly spell is important while balancing.

Perhaps a good rule of thumb for balancing telekinetic-themed spells/powers is "the bigger it is, the slower you move it"...which is how the catapult and telekinesis spells are differentiated now.

 

[Pedantic]

Another alternative is to play an Esper from Steampunkette's Paranormal Power for 5e and A5e and pick up the Telekinesis discipline.

Just want to second this plug. I'm trying one of these right now, and between the Telekinetic BA Mind Blast and the Telekinesis power, you really get a much better spread of options that hit most of the beats you'd want. You've got your Vader choking, you've got object hucking, you've got tossing people around, you've got the "get away from me!" unfocused blast centered on you, it does the fantasy quite well.

 

[Mallus]

2. I like wizards. I appreciate that they can go pew pew pew with cantrips and that they have all this utility, but I want them to be SPECTACULAR!!!!!

Higher-level spells in 5e are fine, even pretty good. But they are toned done, because you can't give spellcasters everything always. IMO.

It's not a lateral move from 'the entire solution' to 'part of the solution'. Some people have trouble adjusting.

 

[Lanefan]

To throw or launch forcefully or comedically.

Thanks. I'd never heard the term before seeing it in this thread.

And it's about time that went away or became a sad variant tucked away in a forgotten splat, IMO.

Is it the zero part, the hero part, or the journey part you don't like?

 

[Lanefan]

A couple thoughts on establishing "balance points" for assigning a level to telekinesis:

Breadth Not Depth: 5e's telekinesis gives more versatility than AD&D – it allows you to move creatures (not the case with AD&D's version) & it gives you fine motor control over things like tools. However, it has a little less versatility than d20 telekinesis.

My handy-dandy 1e Players Handbook begs to differ here: Telekinesis in 1e targets "1 object" but there's nothing saying that object has to be dead. In fact the spell write-up specifically calls out being able to use it on opponents who don't weigh too much.

Falling Objects May Persist: 5e's telekinesis persists even if you drop an object on a creature, allowing you to drop multiple objects (or creatures) over its 10 minute duration. In contrast, in the AD&D version if you launched an object at a creature the spell ended (but damage was capped at 1 point/caster level).

Yeah, there's a big difference between "1 object" and ["1 object at a time", however it's worded]. But I don't know where you're getting that 1-point-per-level damage cap from; the 1e write-up calls out that fast-moving heavy objects can be "deadly weapons" without giving any specifics as to damage dealt.

...However, 5e AFAIK has still not codified how much damage a falling object deals, so without an agreed upon norm the exact power level of telekinesis is up for debat

Has any edition codified this?

The benchmark I tend to use for things like big rocks falling more than 100 feet or so is the damage done by a boulder thrown by a Giant, which is codified in every edition I think.

 

[NaturalZero]

In my current campaign, I'm playing a psi warrior and I've made it from the start of the campaign at level 3 all the way up to level 17. When I first ran the character, I immediately noticed the telekinetic power that they hand out right at level 3:

Telekinetic Movement. You can move an object or a creature with your mind. As an action, you target one loose object that is Large or smaller or one willing creature, other than yourself. If you can see the target and it is within 30 feet of you, you can move it up to 30 feet to an unoccupied space you can see.

No weight limit. So if your Large object is a boulder that fits inside a 10' x 10' space, that's literally tons of stone, by RAW. In the first adventure, we found a ruin that had a bunch of foot-thick broken-off bronze double doors. Each one was, you guessed it, almost 10' across. Depending on the exact composition bronze is pretty heavy but after googling we concluded that it's about 500 lb. per square foot and that 8'x5'x1' bronze door would be 20,000 lb. My psi was was crushing the hell out of some mummies with 10 ton bronze doors at level 3 and I definitely felt like Darth Vader.

 

[Quickleaf]

My handy-dandy 1e Players Handbook begs to differ here: Telekinesis in 1e targets "1 object" but there's nothing saying that object has to be dead. In fact the spell write-up specifically calls out being able to use it on opponents who don't weigh too much.

Yeah, there's a big difference between "1 object" and ["1 object at a time", however it's worded]. But I don't know where you're getting that 1-point-per-level damage cap from; the 1e write-up calls out that fast-moving heavy objects can be "deadly weapons" without giving any specifics as to damage dealt.

Has any edition codified this?

The benchmark I tend to use for things like big rocks falling more than 100 feet or so is the damage done by a boulder thrown by a Giant, which is codified in every edition I think.

Ah, I was looking at the 2e version (I mix the two editions up a lot) - that explains the differences you noticed.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Is it the zero part, the hero part, or the journey part you don't like?

Zero.

It bores me and it isn't what I'm going to a fantasy game for.