Teleportation -> Conjuration using the 3.0 spells

[Psion]

I really don't like the 3.5 spell arrangment. Many of the shifts they do to try to make the schools balanced are really ugly (convoluted or simply don't make sense), and (IME/O) fail despite the efforts.

That said, one change just seems to jive with me: moving teleportation spells to conjuration. It seems to me that under 3.0, transmution is too strong for the value it is assigned. But I think moving teleportation spells to conjuration (a fairly easy fix because they all have a common subtype) would help balance the existing situation, though I wonder if it will make conjuration too strong.

What do you think? Has anyone else "split the difference" on 3.0->3.5 spell changes?

 

[Plane Sailing]

I'm generally happy with the changes from 3.0->3.5, although some seem a little strange - making power words into enchantment spells?

I do think that teleportation moving into conjuration is one of the best changes though. I agree that it really does fit in well with the principle of moving something from there to here (or vice versa).

 

[Gez]

FWIW, I've wanted to shift all the conjuration (healing) spells to evocation. Reasonning: after all, they just evoke positive energy.

Likewise, I'm considering axing necromancy. Most of them would become evocation, but some, like Fear would be enchantment, and some other would join transmutation.

What's placated me from doing this is that my spell database is nigh 2500+ spells, including 155 necromancy spells.

 

[FrankTrollman]

I've always played with Teleportation -> Conjuration.

As soon as you let "Transmutation" include "Transfering an object or creature spatially and/or dimensionally" - what's to prevent you from having a Transmutation that "teleports a friendly creature into battle for 1 round/level and then teleports it back"?

The difference between Teleport and Planar Binding is mysterious at best - and when Drawmij's Instant Summons is a Transmutation effect - well - that's just bizzare.

Yes. All the Teleportation stuff should be Conjuration. I don't even know why it needs its own descriptor - the Calling effects seem exactly the same to me. In either case you are taking a real creature or object and moving it to a new location. Sometimes that new location is in your hand (such as planar binding or Drawmij's Instant Summons), and sometimes it is far away (like Teleport or Plane Shift). But the basic act of moving something from one place to another is exactly the same.

-Frank

 

[Psion]

Thanks for the perspectives, everyone. Again, I totally agree with the idea of teleportation "fitting" in conjuration.

But I guess I ought to put a finer point on my question:

If I use 3.0 rules for specialization and schools (i.e., transmutation, conjuration, and evocation are the three strongest and equal schools under the system), do you think that these three schools would be balanced if I move teleportation spells to the conjuration school (positing that transmutation is too strong as is, and recognizing that conjuration will be gaining some strength in the process)?

 

[FrankTrollman]

Well, it won't really make any difference to game balance. Both Transmutation and Conjuration are "very strong". Which is to say, you could fill every single spell slot you have at every single level with just spells from either one of those schools and have something powerful and useful to do all the time, whether you were in combat or not.

Evocation, OTOH, just does damage at most levels. It's got an occassional utility spell, but most of the levels are bare of even that. A character can really only hope to keep up with the Barbarian in damage output if he is using his most powerful spells - so the lower level spells of that school are always pretty much a waste. And since the damage from Evocation spells is static, and the damage from Barbarians is open-ended - the Evoker will often find himself doing less damage than the guy with the greatsword at the same level.

Of the big three, Evocation is clearly the weak little sister. As for Transmutation and Conjuration, neither of them are going to run out of powerful and useful spells if you add or subtract a few spells from them - so it doesn't really make any difference.

If you take Teleport away from Transmutation, does Transmutation still have 4 good and useful things to do with 5th level spell slots? Heck yes! It still has Animal Growth, Fabricate, Telekinesis, and Transmute Rock to Mud. So long as a Specialist Mage could in all sincerity take every single free spell from his specialist school, and be happy with every single one of them - the school hasn't been weakened at all.

And that's without using expansion spells, the balance of which tend to be Transmutation or suck.

-Frank

 

[Psion]

I never thought for a second that Transmutation wouldn't still be good enough. My concern was more that conjuration would be too good.

 

[Gez]

And it's true that moving Healing out of it would not change the balance much for specialist wizards...