Template Help: Phantom Template, no LA (Ok maybe not) become incorporeal...

[Belzbet]

Ok there is a template in MM5 called Phantom (pg 131). It lets the creature become incorporeal and it has no suggested LA. Also the template DOESNT make you an undead! However, the template gets WAY better if the base creatures CR is above 5 (read below).

My question is: would you let your PC take the template when it is CR 5 or above (at lv. 5 or above) so that it could benefit from the better abilities?

Also, do you think that:
If the creature took the template at lv. 1 would it gain the better abilities once it reached lv. 5 (retroactively)?

ALso what LA would you give the template?


Quotes from MM5:
"AC: All Phantoms gain a deflection bonus to Armor Class equal to their Charisma bonus or +1, whichever is higher. A base creature of CR 5 or higher gains the following special quality.
Phantom Defense(Su.): A Phantom's armor bonus, deflection bonus, natural armor bonus, and shield bonus count toward its Armor Class, whether it or its attackers are incorporeal or corporeal."


"Atk Options: A phantom of CR 5 or higher cannot use attack options use attack options that require prolonged contact with a target, such as adhesive and similar attacks (like grapple I suppose). A base creature of CR 5 or higher gains the following attack option.
Phantom Strike(Ex.): For the purposes of resolving spells, melee attacks, ranged attacks, and other attacks that require only momentary contact to deal damage or have their effects, a phantom is considered to be both incorporeal and corporeal when it is incorporeal. Thus, the phantom receives its normal Strength bonus on attack rolls and damage rolls, and it can use material components to cast its spells."

 

[agrelic]

On reading the entry, the template says:

Level Adjustment: —.

This is much different than a LA of '+0'. With a LA of '-', it means the race/template isn't suitable/recommended for PC use. If it had a LA of '+0', then it would mean you could take the template as a character with no change in ECL.

 

[Belzbet]

On reading the entry, the template says:

Level Adjustment: —.

This is much different than a LA of '+0'. With a LA of '-', it means the race/template isn't suitable/recommended for PC use. If it had a LA of '+0', then it would mean you could take the template as a character with no change in ECL.

That was an oversight (I think I got to excited). By the way Is that rule in a book? does it say that anywhere? It makes sense that way, but I mean why wouldnt they give it an LA and "recommend" it for use (its not that good there are templates that make you incorporeal and more)...I am just wondering... I know that strong monsters that would have ECL's higher than 20 have LA - ... and other creatures, but you have to assignt them an LA... I dont see why this template would not be suitable for use, especially the abilites gain if the base creature is below CR4, those sorta suck (i mean no one would want it if it had a LA+4 or something...so what LA would you give it?

 

[Jackinthegreen]

Something fun to do with this template: Make a monk/sorc with the Ascetic Mage feat, which allows the creature to use its Cha bonus instead of Wis for the Monk's AC. Double Cha to armor anyone? Add in a paladin's Divine Grace and that Cha is also modifying saves too.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

By the way Is that rule in a book? does it say that anywhere?

I don't know about LA specifically, but the game, in general, treats "--" or "N / A" differently than "0" - see, for instance, the discussion on ability scores (where Undead have "--" for their Con score, which is different from a Con of 0 (which makes you dead)).

 

[Sekhmet]

Something fun to do with this template: Make a monk/sorc with the Ascetic Mage feat, which allows the creature to use its Cha bonus instead of Wis for the Monk's AC. Double Cha to armor anyone? Add in a paladin's Divine Grace and that Cha is also modifying saves too.

Either way, the Charisma bonus wouldn't stack (still a Charisma bonus).
Divine Grace is a good way to get some saving throws, though.

 

[Eldritch_Lord]

Either way, the Charisma bonus wouldn't stack (still a Charisma bonus).

Actually, they would stack because the template grants a deflection bonus and the monk bonus is untyped. The fact that both bonuses are equal in magnitude to your Cha bonus doesn't factor in anywhere.

 

[Sekhmet]

I didn't realize that the template's was a deflection bonus. That even frees up an item slot.

 

[Jackinthegreen]

I didn't realize that the template's was a deflection bonus. That even frees up an item slot.

I was going to pop in with the apparent thought that a phantom can't wear items, but the example creature definitely has and uses worn possessions. The template specifies that a Phantom's possessions become incorporeal with him.

Yeah, I can definitely see how this template wouldn't be suitable for a PC.

 

[xigbar]

I was going to pop in with the apparent thought that a phantom can't wear items, but the example creature definitely has and uses worn possessions. The template specifies that a Phantom's possessions become incorporeal with him.

Yeah, I can definitely see how this template wouldn't be suitable for a PC.

Take the CR increase from the template as an extra level adjustment, and apply the savage species rules to the creature you apply it to, and it would work.