D&D 5E Test of High Level 5E: Design 4 or 5 lvl 13 PCs for 6 to 8 encounter adventuring day

[Greg Benage]

The Slaadi instantly initiate combat with fireballs, repeating this tactic on turn two.

Ouch.

 

[Flamestrike]

Ouch.

70' away, invisible and likely with surprise meaning these fireballs are very VERY hard to counter.

That said, I expect a 13th level party to have a few tricks up their sleeves...

 

[NotActuallyTim]

Shoulda spent some of that gold on hirelings.

Or at least trained dogs. They're good for scouting things with their vulnerable doggy faces.

 

[Flamestrike]

Shoulda spent some of that gold on hirelings.

Or at least trained dogs. They're good for scouting things with their vulnerable doggy faces.

The old '2cp a day torchbearer getting prodded up the front of the party with a 10' pole' trick eh?

 

[BoldItalic]

It's entirely in line with the challenge. It's whether or not a 13th level party can be challenged via a 6-8 [medium to hard] encounters in an adventuring day. Its not just the individual encounters that we need to worry about; its the bigger picture of the entire adventure. Thats where the challenge lies.

Key to this challenge is expending as few resources as possible. If you can talk your way (or sneak your way) past encounters without having to enter combat (which is very resource intensive) then you make all your subsequent encounters that adventuring day easier.

DnD is on a fundamental level a resource management game. In this test, the party are being asked to overcome a standard adventuring day using the DMG guidelines. If you can overcome a combat encounter using just a tounges spell and a skill check (saving your 3rd, 4th and 5th level slots for later on in the day) its a massive win for the party.

That's the way I read it. Now that the encounter is history and things have moved on, I'm curious. How would you have ruled if the Paladin had tried to communicate with his giant using dumb show, to persuade him to let them go? For example: he smiles, makes an open-handed gesture of peace, taps his sheathed sword, points vigorously towards the cave mouth and brandishes an imaginary sword, hoping the giant will understand that they are not enemies and he, the paladin, is concerned with what is outside the cavern.

If I'd been DMing, I would have allowed that as an Action and called for a persuade check against the giant's Wisdom with disadvantage given that the giant was already hostile, but that's probably more generous than many DMs would do.

(Pause for 5 pages of people telling me I don't DM right either )

 

[BoldItalic]

Shoulda spent some of that gold on hirelings.

Or at least trained dogs. They're good for scouting things with their vulnerable doggy faces.

Charmed winter wolves? Choice of four, if you haven't killed them?

 

[Flamestrike]

That's the way I read it. Now that the encounter is history and things have moved on, I'm curious. How would you have ruled if the Paladin had tried to communicate with his giant using dumb show, to persuade him to let them go? For example: he smiles, makes an open-handed gesture of peace, taps his sheathed sword, points vigorously towards the cave mouth and brandishes an imaginary sword, hoping the giant will understand that they are not enemies and he, the paladin, is concerned with what is outside the cavern.

If I'd been DMing, I would have allowed that as an Action and called for a persuade check against the giant's Wisdom with disadvantage given that the giant was already hostile, but that's probably more generous than many DMs would do.

(Pause for 5 pages of people telling me I don't DM right either )

Firstly man, ignore the criticisms of your play style. From where I sat, I did think you were on the other side of the fence re 'optimisation' to Celtivan. If you wanted to wear the AoO I would have done so, and either attacked the Giant first (spamming divine smite and maybe a smite spell as a bonus action) or moved to the wounded wolf killing it and maybe engaging another one (and letting the Cleric heal you).

But thats not a criticism - you were playing your character and I awarded inspiration appropriately.

Re your actions described above, the giants were hungry and would likely have viewed what you were doing as a sign of weakness. I would most likely have ruled it wouldnt have worked. A show of force and an intimidation check was a better option.

Dinner had just teleported into the chamber. Maybe if (after a round of combat) you had done some serious damage to the giants, and dropped one or two, I would allow it then.

 

[Lord Twig]

Encounter 2:

As it is I will be amazed if any group can get through all 7 encounters. They are tough.

This is the second encounter where the party appears in a chamber with enemies waiting. Hopefully there will be more chance for scouting in the future.

While my cleric had Scrying available, it is a precious 5th level slot and the chance of "The camber is empty" was too great of a risk. Plus even knowing the giants were there wouldn't have helped much. You still have to port directly into the pack of wolves, there really isn't much choice.

As for the negotiation. I'll always try if I think there is a chance and the risk isn't too great, but charging frost giants doesn't say to me "we're willing to talk". The odds are you will waste an action on diplomacy that will fail when you could have been doing damage. So great benefit if it succeeds, but there is a definite cost if you fail. My group is risk averse, they know damage will work. Eventually.

 

[BoldItalic]

Re your actions described above, the giants were hungry and would likely have viewed what you were doing as a sign of weakness. I would most likely have ruled it wouldnt have worked. A show of force and an intimidation check was a better option.

Dinner had just teleported into the chamber. Maybe if (after a round of combat) you had done some serious damage to the giants, and dropped one or two, I would allow it then.

Seems fair, thanks.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I am not sure dim light gives advantage on stealth checks per se. Invisible only allows you to use stealth as well as dim light. Invisible is the stronger condition here. Actually again one of my problems with surprise in this edition and the way stealth works.

On the other hand you can easily rule that 70ft is so far away, hearing them also has disadvantage on the perception check so maybe it makes some sense here.

I refrain from arguing about surprise here and just add that if the group moves stealthyly into the cave the sladds need to perceive them too to not be surprised too and I would add that if they are aware that the cave is dangerous and they can count on being attacked they may have advantage on perception.