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The 3.5 renaissance!

Henry

Autoexreginated
3.5 will stay alive as long as people want 3.5 to stay alive. It's as simple as that.

Nothing truer than this. As long as there's a market for designers to at the least break even or make a little money off of it, then 3E's here to stay, thanks to the OGL. When the fans quit buying is when it gets bleak again. In fact, this applies to all the other D&D clones, too! Labyrinth Lord, OSRIC, Castles & Crusades - thanks to the OGL, they';re here as long as their fans are, and I'm grateful.
 

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Glyfair

Explorer
3.5 will stay alive as long as people want 3.5 to stay alive. It's as simple as that.
As long as enough people want it to stay alive (which seems to keep 3.5 safe for quite a long time).

I have to admit, it may be nice for the 3.5 players. However, I don't think it quite lives up to the Runequest Renaissance.

At the time of the RQ one, RQ hadn't seen a quality professional product in years. It was fan publications (one in particular) that kept it going. After Avalon Hill saw the strong support RQ was getting they put Ken Rolston in charge of RQ and started putting out quality products.

RQ was pulled from a dwindling obscurity to a strong presence due to fan support. D&D 3.5 never really disappeared. There was a hiatus of strong support during the lead-in to 4E, but it didn't last too long. RQ was in a weaker and longer lasting hiatus, so that stands out more in my mind.
 

Mercurius

Legend
I dunno, it still seems like putting off the inevitable: 3.5 entering the closet of older versions of D&D with a slowly dwindling (and graying) fan base. The main problem for it being that any new blood that comes in will play the newest edition of D&D, which is 4e--or at least the vast majority will (sure, some will join Pathfinder groups, but most who come in will buy what is on the shelves at Borders or B&N, and that is 4e). The only hope for 3.5 actually significantly growing again is if Pathfinder really takes off and starts its own "lineage", even with later editions (just imagine the hoopla when Pathfinder 2ed comes out in a few years!). The idea of a popular 2nd fiddle fantasy RPG interests me--none, over the years, have really succeeded beyond cult status (Rolemaster, Runequest, Ars Magica, etc)--and I think Pathfinder has a chance to do it. But it would have to pull of a hat-trick of taking on its own identity and staying close to D&D-feel, both at the same time.

The point being, for an RPG (or any commodity, really) to thrive in any way, it has to grow. It cannot just maintain, because maintaining is stagnation and stagnation leads to gradually decay. While I currently play and enjoy 4e (with some qualms, which I hope to houserulify eventually), I would like to see Pathfinder succeed: Not only am I intrigued by the idea of how a 2nd fiddle fantasy RPG would effect D&D (maybe serve to make it even better?), but I love the idea that there are a diversity of versions being played. However, I get the sense that this recent "Renaissance" is more of a re-balancing; it is the "backwash" of folks who tried and didn't like 4e. That is nice in the short-term, and will lead to a lot of Pathfinder sales, but eventually the question has to be asked: Where are the new players going to come from? Let's say that 10% of 4e converts re-converted to 3.5/Pathfinder; that's a nice chunk of cash to spend, but it probably won't grow larger unless Paizo sells enough Pathfinder and invests in getting it into B&N and Borders.

I am curious if anyone knows what percentage of active D&D players switched to 4e and stayed, and how that compares to the other edition changes. My guess is that it is a smaller percentage than with 3e, although still the majority and perhaps greater in number.
 

Felon

First Post
Hmm. Still unsure why it's called "3.5" instead of "3e" or "3rd edition". Maybe my memory's fading, but I recall the 3.5 core revisions were just some tweaks to some specifc classes, spells, and other things that probably won't even be in Pathfinder, which is set up to be the de facto torchbearer of the system.

What am I missing? What were the big core changes that forced 3.5 to be though of as an edition unto itself rather than just a revision?
 

Glyfair

Explorer
I dunno, it still seems like putting off the inevitable: 3.5 entering the closet of older versions of D&D with a slowly dwindling (and graying) fan base.
I don't know. 3E has something that no other edition of D&D has had, staying power (in a "new products availability sense). Publishers can publish material for 3.5 (or 3E) indefinitely.

I recently read Chris Pramas' comments on why they aren't doing 4E. Essentially it came down to a business decision and a personal preference. The business decision was that WotC can take away 4E whenever they choose. 3.5 is theirs forever. He doesn't want to invest in a line that can be canceled at the whim of a 3rd party. If WotC eventually gets in the hands of those who don't want 3rd party products, then his investment in a 4E line is wasted.

I can 100% respect that as a business decision. I have seen similar arguments from the other large d20 companies.

Since 3.5 can't be taken away, there will always be new products available for it. That will certainly slow the dwindling player base other editions of D&D saw. Some even feel that it might keep it as the most popular version of the game (I don't see it).
 

Plissken

Explorer
I wonder why people are so fanatical about sticking to one edition. I'm talking about 90% of you here. I'll play basic, 1st AD&D, 2nd AD&D, 3.0, 3.5, 4e....I seriously don't give a damn. Why people are so attracted to mechanics and not the adventure and fun of sitting around the table....Bargle's my mind.
 

Glyfair

Explorer
I wonder why people are so fanatical about sticking to one edition. I'm talking about 90% of you here. I'll play basic, 1st AD&D, 2nd AD&D, 3.0, 3.5, 4e....I seriously don't give a damn. Why people are so attracted to mechanics and not the adventure and fun of sitting around the table....Bargle's my mind.
I've been gaming since 1978. In the 80s I read and played 20-30 systems and read probably a dozen more I never was interested in playing. These days, I don't have time to learn a bunch of systems and get used to their quirks.
 

Darrin Drader

Explorer
Back around 2000, Ryan Dancey predicted that this would happen if Wizards walked away from the OGL and the core game established by 3rd edition.
 

StreamOfTheSky

Adventurer
I wonder why people are so fanatical about sticking to one edition. I'm talking about 90% of you here. I'll play basic, 1st AD&D, 2nd AD&D, 3.0, 3.5, 4e....I seriously don't give a damn. Why people are so attracted to mechanics and not the adventure and fun of sitting around the table....Bargle's my mind.

Well, I'm kinda a fanatic about only one edition (3e), though I'd be willing to give playing in 2e another shot...

Regardless, what's that have to do with being happy that your favorite edition (or any edition you play, for that matter) is getting lots of (good) new stuff? Yay for 3e! I'm a little poor to buy up a lot right now, but I'll try and get a few new books this year, at least.
 

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