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The Best & Worst of 3rd Edition: Ultimate 3E: Unearthed Arcana, Eberron, Pathfinder

Pick the one that is BEST (and note, results are public)


  • Poll closed .

Hellcow

Adventurer
Jhaelen said:
Maybe I am in the minority but I actually voted for the 'Eberron Campaign Setting' as being the best 3E product and not for Eberron as a setting.
I hope that you're not in the minority - I think that's the intention of the poll, single product as opposed to series. With that said, when I said that I was curious because 4E was coming up, it's because I want to make sure the 4E incarnation of the core Eberron book is as good as it can be - so things like WizarDru's observation that the RoE was required to get a strong sense of the new races is exactly the sort of thing I want to know. So hey, if anything I'm more interested in hearing why people AREN'T voting for Eberron - if they feel that it's something that could be addressed in a future edition. (If you just hate everything about the setting and feel it's not even worth burning to stay warm in the winter, there's not much I can do aside from making sure the next edition is more flammable.)
 

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Belabras

Explorer
I voted Eberron, for a lot of the reasons that Amaril already stated. It was a breath of fresh air in what had become a stagnated, FR centric, edition of D&D, and the pulp adventure and magi-tech really invigorated the game for me.

That said, I've read through both UA and the whole Pathfinder line, and there are definitely parts from both I'll be using in the future, but in terms of whole, comprehensive setting with all the bells and whistles that I want, I still have to go with Eberron.
 

drothgery

First Post
Every D&D campaign I've played in at a tabletop that's started since the ECS came out has been in Eberron (as has every D&D PBP I've tried to run, though one was in my own highly tweaked version featuring an Eberron Shattering Event and a millenium of recovering). Whereas I've never used anything from UA in actual play.
 


Hellcow

Adventurer
Aus_Snow said:
About half the votes for Eberron so far are from actually logged in forum members. I haven't checked how long each of those has been a forum member, but that's pretty scary, as is.
I'll admit, I myself was surprised to find that Holy Bovine has actually been a member longer than I have and has five times my number of posts. And voted for Eberron! I would have thought we were natural enemies.

Nonetheless, the fact that many votes are coming from unlogged in members isn't unique to Eberron. Pathfinder is ahead even by logged in hand count, but it's still got its 100+ unknowns. So I don't find it particularly scary - I find it as something to be expected of an internet poll and likely to occur on all sides of the argument... hence my interest in hearing the stories as well as the votes.

(With that said, UA's votes appear to be about 75% from logged in users, so go UA!)
 
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Aus_Snow said:
About half the votes for Eberron so far are from actually logged in forum members. Haven't counted Pathfinder or UA, but I suspect the former, and maybe the latter will have suffered similar fates already.
For the record, at this point Pathfinder leads both counts - 105 logged in members and 128 not. Eberron is right on the fence with 92 logged in, 93 not. And UA holds the moral high ground with 75 logged in and 32 not. Nonetheless, even for UA one-third of the votes are from mystery voters, so I don't think it's anything to be "scared" about. At the end of the day it's a hand count of logged-in members, so until then, does it really matter?
 

Dragonhelm

Knight of Solamnia
Hellcow said:
Obviously I'm thrilled to see Eberron in consideration in this poll.

Eberron is an amazing world, and you should feel proud that it has done so well. It's good to see a new D&D setting launch that has caught on with so many. I personally like how psionics can be used in the world. Besides, who doesn't like warforged? ;)

While Eberron is one of my faves, my vote did, however, have to go with Pathfinder.

I'd like to know exactly what you love about Pathfinder or UA - what they've done for your game. The numbers are fun to see - but it's the words that really interest me.

UA is all about options and tailoring your campaign. I think that's what catches my eye with it. It's the ultimate campaign toolkit.

My vote, though, had to go to Pathfinder. It's hard to quantify, really, but a lot of it just deals with the feel. This feels new to me, like D&D reinvented.

I care about monsters again. Monsters that were yesterday's cannon fodder are fun. They have personality. I just have to smile when I read about goblins and their songs, or the chromatic kobolds. Slurks, aka the sabre-toothed froghemmoths, are great. Stone giants have heads like the statues you see on Easter Island.

The modules are fun, and the articles within bring the world alive. Above all, Pathfinder is the most fun I've had with an RPG outside of Dragonlance in a long while. :)
 

Hellcow

Adventurer
Dragonhelm said:
I care about monsters again. Monsters that were yesterday's cannon fodder are fun. They have personality. I just have to smile when I read about goblins and their songs, or the chromatic kobolds. Slurks, aka the sabre-toothed froghemmoths, are great. Stone giants have heads like the statues you see on Easter Island.
Thanks for sharing - as a game designer, this is exactly the sort of thing I'm interested in hearing. And hey, how can you not like a slurk?

Dragonhelm said:
Besides, who doesn't like warforged?
Um, have you spent much time here on ENWorld? I think you might find that the answer is "Lots of folks." ;)
 

I really love all 3, but I voted for Eberron. The "best" product is too hard to quantify in my mind, so when I voted I figured that Eberron really seemed to epitomize a lot of what third edition is all about with the emphasis on action (while still having plenty of built-in room for INTERaction as well), massive amount of options for characters & adventure styles, plentiful magic, and ability to allow for most any piece of D&D to fit in. Eberron was clearly written for third edition, and for good or bad, it certainly shows. (I think that's a good thing since I love 3e and its assumptions and styles.)

In my opinion, in the years to come, no matter what happens to Eberron or what rule editions come and go, I really see Eberron becoming an icon of third edition.

Unearthed arcana has plenty of cool options, but I guess I don't see it as game changing as Eberron. And I am an utter Paizo fanboy (and wonder if they can just set up automatic deductions from my paycheck), and Pathfinder is awesome, and Rise of the Runelords a good adventure, but in the end, to me at least, it's still just a good adventure - although having the support material built in is pretty handy. Even though Tome of Magic is my utterly favorite 3e book (and is right up there with Savage Species/Complete Book of Humanoids as having been written for me personally), I'm not sure I would even vote for that as the "best" of third edition. It's certainly my favorite, but, at least for my personal criteria, Eberron stands as a real symbol of third edition, and so it gets my vote.
 

Syltorian

First Post
I voted Eberron. I enjoy the setting for many reasons, but ultimately, they revolve around the fact that they make the setting more 'real' than others I have come across (and enjoyed, for their own good points, though not as much as Eberron). The fantasy elements of D&D are given an actual place in the world, and it that the current situation of magic and monsters in the world has actually grown organically.

First, magic. Eberron is not a high-level magic world; instead, the setting focuses on everyday life, and how magic affects the common people. Mages are not holed up in their towers. Their main effect on the economy and ecology is not to attract other adventurers as either allies or enemies: they are integrated into society. They are technicians, researcher, businessmen. The magewright npc class exemplifies this, as do the Dragonmarked Houses.

The Lightning Rail is putting some people off the setting, and that is a reaction I can understand. But this mass-transport system feels, at the end of the day, more believable than a flying carpet. It makes money for Orien, and acknowledges the fact that economy rules many cultures. It has its own history, and, at the risk of repeating myself, it has a place in the world. It represents the unity of the Kingdom of Galifar, shattered in the Last War - many of the lines are broken now. It simply fits in, and (besides some attempts to fit the umpteenth elf or dwarf subrace into the setting, but that does not happen in the ECS), hardly anything feels imposed in Eberron.

Likewise, as has already been said, monsters have their place in the world. They are not simply monsters. If they are at war with another race, it is because of their own reasons - economy, ideals, territory, politics - not because their respective creators don't like each other. Monsters have motives, personalities and culture. The orcs and goblins are not simply there to be killed by adventurers. Likewise, races are not simply good or evil. Eberron's drow, as an example, don't kill the visitors from Khorvaire because they hate them, but because they encroach on their territory, risk disturbing ancient curses out of sheer greed, and are themselves not the nicest people around: Stormreach was founded by pirates, after all.

Which leads to the alignment issue. That too is a major point in Eberron's favour in my book. There is no looking at anything short of an embodiment of evil and saying, without a doubt, "that's evil!" I've mentioned drow. The same goes for dragons, but also religions. I also like that a good person in Eberron can still do evil, and that destroying a villain could have even worse consequences. Queen Aurala and King Kaius III are examples for this: the good, caring Queen who may not want war, but believes it will happen so she had best face it, and the evil king who wants peace but is ready to do whatever it takes to get his people to stay on that path. Riedra is another example: it's lords do not even intend anything good, but destroying them would be a catastrophe as far as the commoners are concerned - and even the vile Quori are not evil for evil's sake, but try to survive themselves.

The same holds true for religion. I do not like it when gods walk the world. That is purely a matter of personal opinion, as everything else is, of course, but I'd rather play a cleric who believes in his god than one who knows him. To me, the former actually has belief, the latter is simply following a liege-lord who happens to have some supernatural powers. This also means that a priest of a good god can be evil, as long as he can justify/fool himself, but not beyond that. A priest of the Silver Flame who comes to realise and relish his evil cannot draw on the Flame any more (he may go over to the Shadow in the Flame), but as long as he truly believes, he is safe. That too creates a lot of roleplaying opportunities.

Eberron is a setting where I find it much easier to immerse myself. Because elements have their actual place in the world, because there is information on everyday, non-adventuring life, it feels easier to actually role-play. Eberron even managed to balance its feats against this: dragonmarks are not very powerful, taken purely on their own. But the roleplaying opportunities and the actual meaning behind having a dragonmark, and with it a place in the world, make more than up for that.

There are many other elements I could manage. As I like the way Eberron seeks to have everything fit into the world without having elements float around as if they were grafted on, I adore the planar system. Eberron has planes that are not easy to reach... but Lamannia affects every farmer on the material world every year. Eberron has psionics, and fits them in, too with both the Quori and the Daelkyr. Eberron makes its dragons intelligent, civilised creatures rather than predators: again, they fit the world better. And so, at the end of a long post, I come back to where I started: Eberron just feels much more logical, much less suspension-of-disbelief involving than other worlds.

A word on the two other contestants.

I admit I have not tried Rise of the Runelords. As has been pointed out, it is primarily an adventure. As such, it does not appeal to me. I really enjoy Eberron beyond the ECS, but even there I have not bought any of the adventures. I prefer setting information than being guided through a single story, however complex it is. Naturally, that is again a matter of taste: it is not because there is a flaw of Rise of the Runelords that I did not vote for it, it is simply that I do not enjoy reading or playing adventure-paths all that much.

As regards Unearthed Arcana: I enjoy the book. I use many of its elements. I like most of the variant classes, the paragon levels, even the bloodlines. I use spell-points, flaws (though I prefer the dragon magazine ones, UA introduced them into 3.5), traits, spell-touched feats and even gestalt rules. But there are equally many elements that I do not use. Ultimately, it also comes down to the fact that Unearthed Arcana is a crunch book. It has very useful material in there, but it is not as interesting or immersive as Eberron. It is also not what keeps my interested in D&D: that again is Eberron (which is also the only 4e books I consider buying, and the reason I might pay for the online magazines), especially now the setting will not advance in its time-line.

So my choice has to be Eberron.
 

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