D&D (2024) The Cleric should be retired

[Remathilis]

5e is silly in a lot of ways. Even so, age still does not equate to level or tier.

It's better than elves having literally decades of infancy, childhood and teenage years. Hell, I recall 2e saying elven pregnancy is two years. No wonder the birth rate was so low!

Then again, a race where maturity is a century after birth is so strange to contemplate that it makes it hard to justify a 100 year old would have the same skills as a 20 year old human. What were they doing for 80 years? Are they just that slow a learner? It's kinda janky when you think about it.

 

[Maxperson]

It's better than elves having literally decades of infancy, childhood and teenage years. Hell, I recall 2e saying elven pregnancy is two years. No wonder the birth rate was so low!

Not really. Both are equally bad in my opinion. Especially considering that as a player I can pick the age of my PC. Remember, I'm not just saying that maturity rates would be different(they would, though not as drastically as you describe), but also that age doesn't equate to level.

 

[Neonchameleon]

To be fair, clerics aren't really fitting the real world warrior monks definition either. The fundamental difference between a monk and a priest in reality is the former is expected to live an ascetic lifestyle, usually separated from the world as well as worldly pleaures, whereas a priest is expected to guide people through a god's teachings.

D&D clerics really aren't associated with an ascetic nor monastic lifestyle. The only thing they have in common with warrior monks is the fact they're both trained in militant matters.

Indeed. If there is a "real world warrior monk" class (that isn't the monk) that separates from everyone else and lives as aescetics it's the paladin not the cleric; I certainly see more of the Oath of Conquest in the Teutonic Knights than I do any one clerical group. The big related problem is that D&D completely messes up its polytheism with the cleric; all those gods are real and most of them are part of the pantheon.

 

[Vikingkingq]

It's better than elves having literally decades of infancy, childhood and teenage years. Hell, I recall 2e saying elven pregnancy is two years. No wonder the birth rate was so low!

Then again, a race where maturity is a century after birth is so strange to contemplate that it makes it hard to justify a 100 year old would have the same skills as a 20 year old human. What were they doing for 80 years? Are they just that slow a learner? It's kinda janky when you think about it.

It doesn't work as well for PCs (who are supposed to be of roughly the same ability as their peers on the same level) - although there is stuff like species feats - but it does work for other things.

For example, Elven and Dwarven craftsmanship is supposed to be superior to human craftsmanship - hence why there's why there's specifically elven magic items and dwarven magic items that are described as being of incredible quality and power - in part because they spend much longer than a human would to make each piece into a masterwork. It would track if they also spent more time in training than a species with a shorter lifespan, to take their time to really hone their craft.

 

[Sorcerers Apprentice]

It's better than elves having literally decades of infancy, childhood and teenage years. Hell, I recall 2e saying elven pregnancy is two years. No wonder the birth rate was so low!

Then again, a race where maturity is a century after birth is so strange to contemplate that it makes it hard to justify a 100 year old would have the same skills as a 20 year old human. What were they doing for 80 years? Are they just that slow a learner? It's kinda janky when you think about it.

Depends what that childhood is like. Children being toddlers for 20 years would probably kill anyone's desire to become parents, but if means carefree adolescense for 90 years betwen the ages of 10 and 100 then it can make sense. Maybe they were dabbling a bit here and a bit there and a bit everywhere for those years, never studying anything for long enough to master it, and forgetting most.

 

[Irlo]

Depends what that childhood is like. Children being toddlers for 20 years would probably kill anyone's desire to become parents, but if means carefree adolescense for 90 years betwen the ages of 10 and 100 then it can make sense. Maybe they were dabbling a bit here and a bit there and a bit everywhere for those years, never studying anything for long enough to master it, and forgetting most.

Speaking as the parent of an adolescent (and as someone who experienced adolescence myself), I have to say that a 90-year period of adolescence sounds like a living hell.

Elves should have a long, carefree childhood (not toddlerhood) and a short adolescence. Dwarves should have a short childhood and a long and grueling adolescence. That’s why dwarves are gruff and dour.

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

Speaking as the parent of an adolescent (and as someone who experienced adolescence myself), I have to say that a 90-year period of adolescence sounds like a living hell.

Elves should have a long, carefree childhood (not toddlerhood) and a short adolescence. Dwarves should have a short childhood and a long and grueling adolescence. That’s why dwarves are gruff and dour.

In a fantasy world where all mortal humanoids have a shared mortal experience, and are interfertile (according to UA1) I believe every humanoid species should have the same timeline of maturity.

In my campaign, a cosmic event happened where the lifelines of all mortal humanoid species were reset to a new level. Every mortal humanoid reaches young adulthood at about 16, mature adulthood at about 24, and have the same maximum lifespans of 120 years. Many humanoids now live longer (even orcs, gobbos, and kobbos), but many popular core races like elves, dwarves, gnomes no longer live past 120. When this cosmic event occurred, mortals older than 120 just died. It was a big event, as it killed off the ancient near-immortal power structures that had controlled the world for hundreds and hundreds of years. On the plus side, the fertility rates were also reset, so races with fertility challenges, like elves and gnomes, now enjoy a vibrant population growth. That said, some elves are now pissed at the cosmos, because their elders ascended to the afterlife earlier than expected, or because their old experience of their species completely changed. There are some lackadaisical humanoids who haven't accomplished much by 110, and they only have 10 more years before they die. Existential dread, baby. What a motivation for conflict and growth.

The Reincarnation spell results in a new body that is the same age as the original, so it is not a workaround. Resurrection also cannot get around this limitation. A path to undeath (or another creature type like fey) will conserve the mentality of the person and they can persist past the 120 year limit, but they become that new creature type instead of a humanoid. There are other cosmic repercussions to such transformations, as only humanoid souls have certain greater destinies beyond death, as they are considered "special" to the cosmos.

To stay on topic, Clerics are very important to a society that is aware of the existence of the Outer Planes and real afterlives (the afterlife is not a mystery, rather a known next step in existence). Because of this, most goodly Clerics advise their mortal parishioners to live their lives to the fullest, so they are more enriched when they finally pass on to the afterlife. Clerics are essential to my campaign world's sanity, and should not be retired. I am glad they are in the rulebooks.

I like to give purpose to every class in the game in my worldbuilding.

 

[Yaarel]

In a fantasy world where all mortal humanoids have a shared mortal experience, and are interfertile (according to UA1) I believe every humanoid species should have the same timeline of maturity.

I agree, the player character "Humanoids" should mature at the same rate. Otherwise, sending children to die in battle, or sex with minors, starts to get icky.

Right now, all of the human-looking species become (cognitively) adults around 20 years of age. Except, I would feel more comfortable if the Orc did too.

I enjoy the fantasy of extreme longevity. I feel it is a parable for reallife technology extending the human lifespan. It is important to explore. And fun.

To stay on topic, Clerics are very important to a society that is aware of the existence of the Outer Planes and real afterlives (the afterlife is not a mystery, rather a known next step in existence). Because of this, most goodly Clerics advise their mortal parishioners to live their lives to the fullest, so they are more enriched when they finally pass on to the afterlife.

Essentially, the Cleric class is Astral mages.

Maybe the class can lean more into hopping back and forth between the attuned Astral dominion and wherever else one is currently. These Astral visits would be "visions", sometimes with the body dematerializing and rematerializing.

I like to give purpose to every class in the game in my worldbuilding.

Yeah. Classes (and subclasses, backgrounds, and species) are great building blocks to establish the flavor of a setting.

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

I enjoy the fantasy of extreme longevity. I feel it is a parable for reallife technology extending the human lifespan. It is important to explore. And fun.

So do I. But it is not the norm in my campaign setting. PCs are special entities in the world that get to explore and find out if they can overcome any limitations imposed on them. Villains are trying to do it too. But the rest of the world doesn't get that special treatment.

Seeking a path to intelligent Undeath is the primary workaround, and is a great motivator that drives conflict and danger in the world. Good Clerics are tasked with purging Undeath, closing that loophole, sending undead villains to their final rest. "Oh no you don't. Time to go to whatever hell you deserve."

 

[ChameleonX]

Pretty much the only thing the Cleric needs to fill the White Mage Archetype is a class feature that encourages them not to wear armor.

E.g.

Armor of Faith
When you aren't wearing armor or using a shield, your AC is equal to 10 + your Dexterity modifier + your Wisdom modifier.

If you choose the spellcaster centric options instead of Warpriest, that gives you a focus on casting in return for sucking at weapons.