D&D 5E The Contagion Spell

TwoSix

Master of the One True Way
Hard to believe no one is utilizing this spell and can offer actual play experience using it as written. It could be not many players have reached level 9 and of that group very few play a class capable of using contagion. I'll have to use it and see how it plays out, then adjust accordingly.
Considering the amount of debate and discussion around this spell online, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people are avoiding it like, well, the plague.
 

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Celtavian

Dragon Lord
Considering the amount of debate and discussion around this spell online, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people are avoiding it like, well, the plague.

Probably so. I expect this to be one of the few spells that gets specific errata. I hope they don't make it weak.
 

Dausuul

Legend
That's not a plot spell.
Well, then, neither is the proposed rewrite of contagion. I mean, now we're just arguing semantics.

The definition I've been using for "plot spell" is that it's a spell which is used outside of combat, to shape events on a scale of days, weeks, or years. The defining trait of a plot spell is that its value in a straight-up dungeon crawl is almost nil; you need a larger plot for it to matter. Sequester is a great example of a plot spell.

If you don't like "plot spell" as a term for this kind of thing, then feel free to choose a different term.
 

ThirdWizard

First Post
I'm under the impression that a plot spell is something solely used to advance a plot in a story having no other purpose. As is usual on a forum, definitions differ from person to person. So I'll exit this conversation as I'm sure a consensus is not going to happen.

Not plot in reference to "the plot of a book" but plot in reference to "my character is plotting something."

Hope that helps.
 

But everyone knows that PCs never create complicated plots/plans/schemes. ;-)

BTW, I have a PC who LOVES using Bestow Curse in non-combat settings. I can see him getting mileage out of "plot-Contagion" as well. Capture a goblin, infect it, mind-wipe it, Suggest that it go visit the illithid citadel and get captured...

That's not a plot spell. That's no different than summoning a succubus, binding it with planar binding, and sending it to do spy work. A PC doing something is not a plot. If it is, then assassinating someone with a magic missile is a plot spell.

Le sigh. That's what I get for trying to be punny.

Plot (noun): a plan made in secret by a group of people to do something illegal or harmful.

My PC definitely does plot with Bestow Curse, and would undoubtedly plot with Contagion (as revised by Dausuul) as well. In some ways it would be even better than the PHB Contagion because it can spread through a whole city under the right circumstances.
 

Stalker0

Legend
Yeah, I've gone back and forth, but in the end I think contagion should just be completely rewritten, as a plot spell rather than a combat spell. Something like this:

CONTAGION
5th-Level Necromancy
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Touch
Components: V, S, M (a black sapphire worth 1,000 gp; see below)
Duration: Until cured

When you cast this spell, the creature you touch must make a Constitution save or be afflicted with a deadly plague. The disease incubates for 24 hours, after which the victim becomes infectious. Symptoms begin after 48 hours, and include fever, coughing, and distinctive bruising under the eyes and on the lips. Upon developing symptoms and every 24 hours thereafter, the victim must make a Constitution save or have his or her maximum hit points reduced by 5. Three successful saves (not necessarily consecutive) end the disease, and the victim can regain the lost hit points normally.

Anyone who spends at least 1 minute within 15 feet of the original victim, or who touches the original victim, must make a Constitution save or become infected. The disease then follows the same course, except that secondary victims can't spread the disease further. Those who successfully save are immune to this contagion. The sapphire used as a material component becomes hot to the touch and remains so as long as there is at least one infected person. If the sapphire is destroyed, all victims recover instantly.

At the DM's option, contagion may be used to produce other diseases.

At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a higher-level spell slot, secondary victims can also spread the disease. If you use a 6th-level slot, the disease can go two "jumps" from the original victim instead of one. If you use a 7th-level slot, the disease can make three jumps. If you use an 8th-level slot, it can make five jumps. If you use a 9th-level slot, the disease can spread without limit.

This is a thread necro but just wanted to say thanks for this idea. I agree that contagion is OP as written, and I think this makes a good attempt to change the spell from a combat one to a large scale true "plague" type spell.

That said, I will probably need to create some counter disease spell of equal power. Else, all you need is a few 17th level clerics in a world and that world would be plagued with endless disease of a scale that you could not overcome. Then again....sounds like a good plot:)
 

tomBitonti

Adventurer
But everyone knows that PCs never create complicated plots/plans/schemes. ;-)

BTW, I have a PC who LOVES using Bestow Curse in non-combat settings. I can see him getting mileage out of "plot-Contagion" as well. Capture a goblin, infect it, mind-wipe it, Suggest that it go visit the illithid citadel and get captured...

That's an interesting idea! It definitely opens a lot of story possibilities.

It might affect the thralls before it affects the illithid's. Which would harm the illithids -- eventually. But using disease in this fashion seems evil. (If the use poison is evil, then I'd expect the use of disease to be as well.) Seems like a classic question of ends vs means.

But I'd not want to use a goblin: There is every possibility that to goblin will wander off and never reaches the citadel. Then adventurers clearing out a nearby nest of goblins bring the disease back to town. The possibility of unintended consequences seems pretty high. But even with more determined creatures than goblins, the possibility of a misfire seems high.

Of course, if it did work, the illithids should have no hard time figuring out what was done, and have a reprisal to the players. While, of course, they raided town to replenish their herd of thralls ...

Thx!
TomB
 

CapnZapp

Legend
Hard to believe no one is utilizing this spell and can offer actual play experience using it as written. It could be not many players have reached level 9 and of that group very few play a class capable of using contagion. I'll have to use it and see how it plays out, then adjust accordingly.
It's now 2018 and we finally have a Druid high level enough to make this an issue.
 

CapnZapp

Legend
Ok, so far no real good solutions offered.

Turning the spell into a plot spell gives the same practical results as banning it.

The few suggestions of easy tweaks all seem to result in the spell becoming just bad enough not to get used.

Rewriting it entirely is maybe a solution but I'm not really interested - I want a minimal change that retains the player's interest level, yet removes the "I win" button.
 

jaelis

Oh this is where the title goes?
Ok, so far no real good solutions offered.

Turning the spell into a plot spell gives the same practical results as banning it.

The few suggestions of easy tweaks all seem to result in the spell becoming just bad enough not to get used.

Rewriting it entirely is maybe a solution but I'm not really interested - I want a minimal change that retains the player's interest level, yet removes the "I win" button.

How about:
- The disease effects occur immediately when the target is hit
- Whenever the target makes a save, the effects are suppressed for one round
- Slimy Doom is removed as an option
 

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