D&D 5E The cost of D&D 5E (it ain't so bad!)

[Derren]

Why do people always compare the cost of the D&D trinity with other forms of entertainment instead with other RPGs?

Most other RPGs (Shadowrun, Pathfinder, Warhammer/40K, etc.) give you the full game around the price (slightly higher) than a single D&D book. And compared to that 3 books at $50 is expensive.

 

[Dannager]

Why do people always compare the cost of the D&D trinity with other forms of entertainment instead with other RPGs?

Because it seems that, most of the time, RPG players don't size up the market and say, "Okay, I have $50 to spend, which of these four RPGs should I buy?" If they did do that, it certainly would make sense for them to compare the value of each game to the others (among other things). But people tend not to do that, especially with new releases. Instead, they follow the release months in advance because they don't want Shadowrun, or Warhammer, or Dragon Age, or Edge of the Empire. They want D&D.

So the question then isn't "Is it worth buying D&D over these other games?" because most of them aren't deciding between multiple games. Most people are simply deciding whether they should buy D&D. So it falls to a budget decision. And when that happens, it makes perfect sense to ask oneself how much enjoyment they will get out of their purchase. Only a couple hours? Probably not worth it - most movies last that long and don't run you $150. But hundreds of hours? That's one hell of a value proposition, especially for an enthusiast hobby.

 

[ccooke]

Some recent, albeit a bit cryptic, tweets by Mearls might be relevant to this conversation:
" Lots of Q's about the staggered release: You will not need the MM or DMG to run a campaign. Or the PH or Starter Set to make a character."

" You will be able to run a complete campaign starting in August, with the release of the PH."

(Emphasis mine)

So... How is it that nobody has commented on that yet...?

 

[delericho]

The books are 320 pages, same as the 3e and 4e books.

They are indeed 320 pages, but that's not the same as either 3e or 4e. The 3.5e books were each 320 pages in length, but for 3.0e and 4e only the PHB was comparable - both the DMG and MM were shorter.

It's also worth noting that that 320 page count doesn't tell you all that much - they could be 320 pages laid out like 4e (with copious art, big margins, a big font size, and lots of whitespace), or they could be 320 pages laid out like the 3e FRCS (with low/medium art, small margins, tiny, dense text, and almost no whitespace). The latter may have as much as 50% more content than the former, despite the same page-count.

(FWIW, my money would be on something between those two extremes - and that's probably for the best. The 3e FRCS is a great book, but it's not the easiest thing to read and digest! )

 

[delericho]

With regard to the price:

There are some very clever people who have no doubt done some calculations with spreadsheets: "If we sell it at $40 we make $X per copy and can expect to sell Y copies; if we sell it at $50 we make $M per copy and can expect to sell N copies. X x Y is less than M x N, so $50 it is." (Note: I've vastly simplified this, of course.) They simply believe this will maximise their profits, and they're probably right.

The question we each have to ask is "is this game worth that amount to me?"

To which my answer is a resounding "maybe".

On the one hand, it's $150 for an upgrade of a game I already have four previous versions of (five if you count Pathfinder). I also have a big shelf containing lots of other RPGs, and I have four others on their way. I have more RPG material, and indeed more D&D material, than I would ever use even if I lived to 200.

On the other hand, I'm well aware that my edition of choice (3.5e) has some very serious, systematic flaws, at least some of which 5e seems to eliminate. There's a decent chance that I could enjoy running this edition significantly more than the previous ones.

And if this does become my edition of choice, and if I continue to game with the same sort of frequency as at present, then across the likely-five-year life of the edition I'll get plenty of use from the books. Certainly, in terms of price vs usage, my 3.5e core rulebooks are probably my best purchases ever.

So... I guess I'll wait and see. When the books come out, there will no doubt be a huge range of reviews. My intention is to seek out reviews by the people I generally trust, see what they say, and then make a decision. Which, to be fair, was pretty much what I was planning anyway - the $50 price hasn't changed that.

 

[MerricB]

On the one hand, it's $150 for an upgrade of a game I already have four previous versions of (five if you count Pathfinder).

Only four previous versions?

Cheers!

 

[Ichneumon]

What would happen if WotC had the freedom to leave out any aspect of D&D they saw fit without risking a backlash from their fan base? Let's say they could safely cut the PHB down to half the classes, half the races, and stick to a tight, compact set of game elements. Imagine that nobody would be upset if the monsters & magic items were pared down considerably, levels were limited to 10 and the ruleset had few variations. D&D could then fit into a single volume like many other RPGs out there.

This isn't the case because WotC must include enough classes, subclasses, races, spells, items, playstyle options and other elements to please the diverse tastes and nostalgic expectations of its fans. When 4e was done, Wizards copped considerable heat for leaving some classes and races out of the first PHB. Clearly, they don't want to go through that again, so for 5e everything is there. When a game is 40 years old, people expect a high level of content consistency and continuity. The standard, three-book version of D&D is $150 because it is D&D. On the other hand, the Starter Set promises to show that D&D can be done in a small space. It's seen as an introductory product, but if the general community really wants a pared down D&D experience, they'll adopt the 'Green Box' en masse and consign the traditional three books to history (or a specialised niche)

I don't have access to the list of factors driving them towards a $50 price point for each book. But they need to recoup the cost of their investment, and after 2 years of limited product sales I doubt they can afford to give the main books away until a Paizo-esque revenue stream from adventures cranks into gear. $150 is a bigger deal to some of us than others, and I sympathise with those in an economic situation that makes it difficult or impossible to purchase the books. I've been there. Ultimately though, anyone who truly thinks the price is unjustified is better off complaining to WotC, not ENWorld.

 

[delericho]

Only four previous versions?

Good point - I'd forgotten the Rules Cyclopedia. So five.

Oh, and I've just remembered that I have a copy of the Holmes "blue book" version in that 25th Anniversary box. Six.

And I suppose 3.5e is widely held to be different enough from 3.0e to count separately. Seven.

Guess I really don't need 5e after all.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I think most of the people complaining about the price tag would balk at spending that much money on other forms of entertainment, though.

I'm pretty sure the people who can afford to buy three $50 video games on a whim aren't the people complaining about D&D's price tag.

I'm pretty sure most of those people (including me) will read this thread and say "Yeah, those things you mention are expensive too. That's why I don't spend money on them either."

Exactly. I'm not a "poor person", by any means, but er, $150 (say, £100), that's a lot of bloody money! I can't afford full-price computer games, or to take my wife to dinner and a show more than about once a year. So it's a real consideration for me.

(Emphasis mine)

So... How is it that nobody has commented on that yet...?

Free online character builder, I presume. That'd be super-smart.

 

[Zardnaar]

Its also $150 on a game you may not like. After 4th ed not willing to buy D&D sight unseen like I was for 2nd,3./0 and 3.5. If you like D&DN $150 is not that bad. But if you don't like it you have flushed $150 down the toilet.