'The Hulk'

[Drowbane]

Why not go for all 10 levels of War Hulk? The werebear HD give you 3 feats and +4 BAB, so you'd only need 1 level in a full-BAB class after the racial HD to qualify. If you're strictly looking to max out Str, 4 more levels of War Hulk will probably serve better than 4 of fighter.

Agreed. I'd drop the 4 fighter levels.

 

[Nezkrul]

Why not go for all 10 levels of War Hulk? The werebear HD give you 3 feats and +4 BAB, so you'd only need 1 level in a full-BAB class after the racial HD to qualify. If you're strictly looking to max out Str, 4 more levels of War Hulk will probably serve better than 4 of fighter.

+0 base attack bonus from all 10 levels of warhulk, and, Thou Shalt Not Take Only 3 Levels of Fighter.

 

[TKDB]

+0 base attack bonus from all 10 levels of warhulk, and, Thou Shalt Not Take Only 3 Levels of Fighter.

The lack of BAB advancement from war hulk is offset by the Str boosts in most every situation where it matters. Granted, it only applies in bear mode, but considering the point of this is to get Str as high as possible without using the classic cancer mage cheese, it seems silly not to go for the full 10 of war hulk, and even taking 6 levels of war hulk sets your BAB back enough that you're already pretty wimpy in human mode.

As for "Thou Shalt Not Take Only 3 Levels of Fighter", if you take all 10 levels of war hulk then you aren't taking any levels of fighter, so it's a rather moot point.

 

[Nezkrul]

The lack of BAB advancement from war hulk is offset by the Str boosts in most every situation where it matters. Granted, it only applies in bear mode, but considering the point of this is to get Str as high as possible without using the classic cancer mage cheese, it seems silly not to go for the full 10 of war hulk, and even taking 6 levels of war hulk sets your BAB back enough that you're already pretty wimpy in human mode.

As for "Thou Shalt Not Take Only 3 Levels of Fighter", if you take all 10 levels of war hulk then you aren't taking any levels of fighter, so it's a rather moot point.

You can still wield weapons in hybrid mode and make your secondary natural bite attack. You also don't lose the Strength while in half-orc mod, you only lose all the special attacks and the "no time to think" class features. The build i suggested left the character at 12 bab.

 

[TKDB]

You can still wield weapons in hybrid mode and make your secondary natural bite attack. You also don't lose the Strength while in half-orc mod, you only lose all the special attacks and the "no time to think" class features. The build i suggested left the character at 12 bab.

The Str boost from war hulk is an Ex ability granted by the class. If you lose the "no time to think" and other class features for not meeting the Large size requirement, you also lose the Str bonus.

The loss of the iterative attack might be a bit of a setback, but 4 levels of fighter still isn't the best way to do it. I'd go one more level of war hulk and the full 3 of orc paragon (which you can take in addition to half-orc paragon). That still gets you enough BAB to make 3 attacks at level 20 (not counting natural weapons and extra attacks from other sources), and gets you another +4 Str (+2 from war hulk 7 and +2 from orc paragon 3). Granted, the three fighter feats are probably more useful than 4 more points of Str, but seeing as the goal is to maximize Str taking any levels of fighter when you can take levels in a class that gives you a Str boost is counterproductive.
And if you're really, really looking to maximze Str without regard to more general combat effectiveness, you'd be an idiot not to go for the full 10 levels of war hulk.

 

[Nezkrul]

The Str boost from war hulk is an Ex ability granted by the class. If you lose the "no time to think" and other class features for not meeting the Large size requirement, you also lose the Str bonus.

The loss of the iterative attack might be a bit of a setback, but 4 levels of fighter still isn't the best way to do it. I'd go one more level of war hulk and the full 3 of orc paragon (which you can take in addition to half-orc paragon). That still gets you enough BAB to make 3 attacks at level 20 (not counting natural weapons and extra attacks from other sources), and gets you another +4 Str (+2 from war hulk 7 and +2 from orc paragon 3). Granted, the three fighter feats are probably more useful than 4 more points of Str, but seeing as the goal is to maximize Str taking any levels of fighter when you can take levels in a class that gives you a Str boost is counterproductive.
And if you're really, really looking to maximze Str without regard to more general combat effectiveness, you'd be an idiot not to go for the full 10 levels of war hulk.

did you miss the part where I said i didn't uberoptimize him right?

best to take warhulk in epic levels

 

[TKDB]

did you miss the part where I said i didn't uberoptimize him right?

By that I assumed you meant general optimization, not optimization for Str specifically.

Really, the fact that you went for fighter rather than more war hulk (or even just barbarian for another use of rage) seemed to suggest to me that you were trying to optimize there

 

[Loonook]

If you go with 8 levels of Fighter and the Dungeoncrasher ACFs you can take both Knockback and Knockdown (qualify for both pretty easily) and 'only' have a Strength of 76...

Now now, that Strength is just terrible. I mean, you can go into Epic Levels and be able to grapple with the best of the Epic creatures... But really, the benefit is being able to just beat people into the ground.

Why do I say this?

Well you get four iterative attacks, the ability to full-round and knock a Colossal target across the room... With a two-handed weapon your Knockback will have a +66 Strength Check for your Bull Rush. Yeah, on every hit you're probably knocking your average beefy warrior type 30-40 feet back, drop the AB into Power Attack with your two-hander, and (if your DM allows slamming via Flight) some very dangerous things can occur.

Oh, and if you need to not Power Attack to hit something with a ridiculous AC? Do 10 or more damage and you trigger a trip attack with the same type of Check.

When you slam someone with your bull rush? 8d6 extra damage.

If you just wanna take 2 levels of Fighter you will still do 4d6 on that Rush, which is nothing to sneeze at for 2 levels worth of entry, the bonus feats provided to get you there, and get to use your iterative checks for Mighty Swings with those 10 levels of War Hulk.

Of course you will also get additional Break DC checks for doors and walls, and with your ridiculous Break DCs you have made it completely moot to have a Rogue in the party... Because, well, you will have the break DC of an atom bomb doing steroids whose mother was insulted by your target.

Personally? I'd go with the 4 feats that allow me to turn every attack into a status effect or movement, pretty much guaranteeing you can manipulate your targets into walls, flanking positions, etc. Also, screw Hulk... You will be more Sauron (from 1:00 on)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9lcJJuHPEs]Lord of the rings - the last alliance - YouTube[/ame]

Yeah, Sauron has them ranks .

Slainte,

-Loonook.

 

[James the Newbie]

I will looking into the knock back and knock down, I cant get to my books for a few days unfortunatly, but the names are a give away

And yeah, the goal isnt the most combat effective character, or we may be starting to look at ToB or many other definatly good routs using grapples and such.

It is indeed just to optimise strength.

 

[TKDB]

If you go with 8 levels of Fighter and the Dungeoncrasher ACFs you can take both Knockback and Knockdown (qualify for both pretty easily) and 'only' have a Strength of 76...

I do love me some Knockback, and it's made even juicier by the fact that you're totally underselling the Dungeoncrasher fighter for this build. You only need 6 levels for the full benefit, not 8, and the bonus damage when shoving people into walls isn't just 4d6...it's 4d6 plus twice your Str bonus. Or three times your Str bonus if you go to 6th level for the upgrade to 8d6. That's pretty brutal, considering that with Knockback you're getting this in addition to the damage you're dishing out with a melee attack.

Knock-Down might actually be a bit tricky to meet the prereqs for, though. You need Improved Trip, which means you need Combat Expertise, which means you need at least 13 Int, and you have a -2 Int penalty.

Also on the subject of tricky-to-qualify-for feats, the Pain Mastery and Involuntary Rage feats mentioned above require Con 20. Not impossible (depending on how you word if you're focusing as much of your resources as possible into Str. Especially so if you're trying to get the 13 Int to take Knock-Down too. Personally, I'd say to simply pass on these two feats. The extra Str is certainly nice, but the bonus is very situational and requires some serious finagling if you want it to gain the benefits reliably. Plus they have fatigue-related drawbacks that require additional work to overcome.
In short, they really don't seem worthwhile to me.