The importance of being a 20

[TheLoneRanger1979]

Hey ya all. This is sort of a general question, but i'll also present it in the context of my group. But first, the general question...

What do you guys think is the importance of having a 20 in the primary ability (as opposed to say an 18) in a premade campaign (a one not tweaked or created by a DM for a given party)? Is it mandatory? Can it be offset by a descent feat? If so, what feats are generally worth the -1 to the ability score bonus?

Now the context.....
I am in a 4 PC party. We may have an extra player every now and then as guest stars, but
for the most part we are 4. 3 of our members are core players and the 4th is a rotating one.
The core players are as follows:
-A hill dwarf totem barbarian
-A half elven sorcerer
-A half elven fighter battle master (me)
The rotating players are:
-A half orc vengeance paladin and
-dwarven life cleric
The gues star will probably be a bard....

In this party makeup, how wise would it be for my character to forego the 20 str? My
current stats are Str18, Dex11,Con14,Int12,Wis13,Cha10. I am lvl5 at the moment and
i try to keep all the options available (such as feats and MC). I am pretty sure the barb-
arian and the sorcerer will go for 20's in their primary stats. The paladin as well (though he
will not always be with us). Will i damage the party too much if i skip on the 20 (long
term)? It should be noted then in the absence of the paladin, i seam to be the primary
damage dealer right now on the average encounter. And if i decide to let the 20 go
away, what feats would be most useful overall in my opinion? Resilient i'll take anyway
for my wisdom, in order to give myself prof in wisdom saves and bring it up to 14.

From purely role playing aspects, i'd want to make a very versatile character that is good
in lots of different situations (i am outlander), that can fight in the front but also stealth
and sneak if needed, so i wanted to take some points in Dex as well (at least 2). However
because of the small size of our party, i am a bit afraid i might "nerf" us if things get tough
in the future (REMINDER: we will be playing premade adventures with this group). Also as
we don't have a dedicated rogue, a prof in thieving skills is something i considered as well
(is there such a feat?)....

So what do you guys think? Any feats and/or MCs worth the -1? And if so, what feats and/or
MCs would you pick? Thanks in advice, and feel free to elaborate as long and detailed as
possible..... i appreciate ALL the opinions!

 

[Azurewraith]

Hey ya all. This is sort of a general question, but i'll also present it in the context of my group. But first, the general question...

What do you guys think is the importance of having a 20 in the primary ability (as opposed to say an 18) in a premade campaign (a one not tweaked or created by a DM for a given party)? Is it mandatory? Can it be offset by a descent feat? If so, what feats are generally worth the -1 to the ability score bonus?

Now the context.....
I am in a 4 PC party. We may have an extra player every now and then as guest stars, but
for the most part we are 4. 3 of our members are core players and the 4th is a rotating one.
The core players are as follows:
-A hill dwarf totem barbarian
-A half elven sorcerer
-A half elven fighter battle master (me)
The rotating players are:
-A half orc vengeance paladin and
-dwarven life cleric
The gues star will probably be a bard....

In this party makeup, how wise would it be for my character to forego the 20 str? My
current stats are Str18, Dex11,Con14,Int12,Wis13,Cha10. I am lvl5 at the moment and
i try to keep all the options available (such as feats and MC). I am pretty sure the barb-
arian and the sorcerer will go for 20's in their primary stats. The paladin as well (though he
will not always be with us). Will i damage the party too much if i skip on the 20 (long
term)? It should be noted then in the absence of the paladin, i seam to be the primary
damage dealer right now on the average encounter. And if i decide to let the 20 go
away, what feats would be most useful overall in my opinion? Resilient i'll take anyway
for my wisdom, in order to give myself prof in wisdom saves and bring it up to 14.

From purely role playing aspects, i'd want to make a very versatile character that is good
in lots of different situations (i am outlander), that can fight in the front but also stealth
and sneak if needed, so i wanted to take some points in Dex as well (at least 2). However
because of the small size of our party, i am a bit afraid i might "nerf" us if things get tough
in the future (REMINDER: we will be playing premade adventures with this group). Also as
we don't have a dedicated rogue, a prof in thieving skills is something i considered as well
(is there such a feat?)....

So what do you guys think? Any feats and/or MCs worth the -1? And if so, what feats and/or
MCs would you pick? Thanks in advice, and feel free to elaborate as long and detailed as
possible..... i appreciate ALL the opinions!

I would say you can get by I mean most enemies have sub 20 AC so even with an 18 your looking at 3(Prof correct me if I'm.wrong)+ 4(stat) giving you a 7 so you only need to roll a 11 to hit. Damage wise your missing out on 1per attack its not major. If your worried about missing you can take the trip manoeuvre for adv or precision strike. Feat wise I like savage attacker and pole arm master.

5e is pretty robust at the low end of the scale so go for it and have fun a good dm will adjust if you struggle

 

[TheLoneRanger1979]

I would say you can get by I mean most enemies have sub 20 AC so even with an 18 your looking at 3(Prof correct me if I'm.wrong)+ 4(stat) giving you a 7 so you only need to roll a 11 to hit. Damage wise your missing out on 1per attack its not major. If your worried about missing you can take the trip manoeuvre for adv or precision strike. Feat wise I like savage attacker and pole arm master.

5e is pretty robust at the low end of the scale so go for it and have fun a good dm will adjust if you struggle

Thanks. Savage attacker does look tasty now that i'm reading the description. I didn't mention i have taken two handed weapon style and i use the great sword. Does the feat stack with this?
Also, precision strike does seam like it would solve my to hit problems for extremely "hard" targets, even if at the expense of some DPR. I think i can live with that.

What do you make of the alert feat?

 

[Azurewraith]

Thanks. Savage attacker does look tasty now that i'm reading the description. I didn't mention i have taken two handed weapon style and i use the great sword. Does the feat stack with this?
Also, precision strike does seam like it would solve my to hit problems for extremely "hard" targets, even if at the expense of some DPR. I think i can live with that.

What do you make of the alert feat?

I let savage attacker stack I see no reason why not, ask your dm to be certain. Alert is nice feat has some good flavour to it works great with pm master and sentinel combo, lets you get where you need to be first and lock down. As for dropped dpr don't forget the golden rules:
1) dead dps does no dps
2) a missed attack does exactly 0.

 

[mellored]

Will i damage the party too much if i skip on the 20 (long term)?

No.

Sentinal, great weapon master, resilent (Wis), heavy armor master, healer feat, inspiring leader (try and convince your sorcerer to take it) can all be better then +2 Str. Depending on your goal. Polearm master and shield master also, but not in your case.

Savage attacker is worse. It adds 1.37 damage (with 2d6). But +2 Str adds +1.55 damage (including +1 to hit). Not to mention you can lift more stuff and have a better chance to get out of a krakens grab. Fine to pick up after you get 20.

And fighters get extra feats, so you'll still have a chance to get 20 later.


Personally, with that party, i suggest healer, depending on how often the life cleric shows up.

 

[TheLoneRanger1979]

No.

Sentinal, great weapon master, resilent (Wis), heavy armor master, healer feat, inspiring leader (try and convince your sorcerer to take it) can all be better then +2 Str. Depending on your goal. Polearm master and shield master also, but not in your case.

Savage attacker is worse. It adds 1.37 damage (with 2d6). But +2 Str adds +1.55 damage (including +1 to hit). Not to mention you can lift more stuff and have a better chance to get out of a krakens grab. Fine to pick up after you get 20.

And fighters get extra feats, so you'll still have a chance to get 20 later.


Personally, with that party, i suggest healer, depending on how often the life cleric shows up.

We thought of making the Cleric's character sort of a camp follower when the player doesn't show up and act in a passive manner only (as in providing healing, but not actually fighting). The in story explanation is that he (being a chronic alcoholic) sometimes just refuses to fight and acts only if the situation is really dire....

I know the fighters get the most opportunities to get feats and originally i have planned my character to have 20 Str..... but.... it just somehow felt wrong when i looked at the end result. I never quite liked arrays that had one score significantly higher then all the rest and i like playing versatile characters. Unfortunately when i tried this in our 4E grand campaign, it came back to bite me in the gluteus maxiums, as i was always bellow the "to hit power curve" and many of my abilities were tied to my ability to hit (i was playing a warlord then).

That's why i'd like to consult any of you guys with more long term experience as how would this reflect my usefulness to the group. If we were just a heavy-role-playing bunch, then i would not hesitate to go with an even less "powered" array (like 16-16-16 or so), but half out players are power gamers and the grand campaign will be a premade.

So far, i like the proposals i get. Another question just crept in my mind though. If i take a few levels in a second class, and at some of that levels that class offers a second fighting style, do i get it?

 

[mellored]

In both 4e snd 5e, being 1 point behind is hard to notice.
-2 was noticable.
-3 is significant.

The difference is 5e has a much narrower range, capped at 20, rather then 30.

And yes you get 2 fighting styles. Though the need to be different types.

 

[TheLoneRanger1979]

The difference is 5e has a much narrower range, capped at 20, rather then 30.

And yes you get 2 fighting styles. Though the need to be different types.

And apparently lower monster AC....
Nice! I think of maybe MC-ing to get the Defense fighting style, for that +1AC when wearing armor. Is there a way to sneak in 5E without disadvantage in heavy armor?

 

[Georlik]

And apparently lower monster AC....
Nice! I think of maybe MC-ing to get the Defense fighting style, for that +1AC when wearing armor. Is there a way to sneak in 5E without disadvantage in heavy armor?

Only if you have Mithril Heavy Armor.
Your other option would be to take Medium Armor Master (to be a stealth tank).

 

[TheLoneRanger1979]

Only if you have Mithril Heavy Armor.
Your other option would be to take Medium Armor Master (to be a stealth tank).

Is Mithril armor considered magical or just enhanced-rare material in DnD5? I.E. could it be crafted or bought from a shop, no matter how exotic and rare, or can it only be found on a quest?

If there was a greater difference between a half plate and a breast plate i would seriously consider Medium Armor Master as a feat. But seeing as i could still sneak in BP i just don't find it all that useful. Not with 13-14 Dex that i expect i can get through legal means anyways (my current being 11). If i could somehow get to 16, then it would be whole new ball game.

But a stealthy tank is one of the archetypes i try to emulate in 5E yes. Just not a Dex based one, or i would have gone the barbarian rout or the rogue rout. Ideally i would like to sacrifice as few ability points on Dex as possible.