The Katara

[Jdvn1]

Humans and orcs are a lot more alike than humans and cats. All humanoids have essentially the same body structure, so the difference between an orcblooded human and a humanblooded orc is not that great.

First of all, it's not the difference between humans and cats. You don't get this sort of race by humans and cats getting it on. There are cat-people and humans. Have you ever seen a show where the main characters are anthropomorphic? Or, like, the Disney version of Robin Hood? They're animals, but they're human-like.

And if you mean to imply that the player can decide whether her Katara has the Humanoid type or the Animal type -- I think that's out of the question, if they're supposed to be the same race.

No, I meant to say that what they look like is up to the player. Whether being Humanoid or Animal (I'd go for Humanoid), is static.

 

[orsal]

First of all, it's not the difference between humans and cats. You don't get this sort of race by humans and cats getting it on. There are cat-people and humans. Have you ever seen a show where the main characters are anthropomorphic? Or, like, the Disney version of Robin Hood? They're animals, but they're human-like.

You misunderstand me. Because the difference between humans and cats is so great, specifying some combination of human and feline features leaves a lot of room for variation. This is why the analogy to half-orcs is a poor one. It is irrelevant how the creatures came to have a hybrid form.

No, I meant to say that what they look like is up to the player. Whether being Humanoid or Animal (I'd go for Humanoid), is static.

OK, so you've answered one of my questions satisfactorily.

 

[Knight Otu]

The basic look and nature should be given in this proposal, the details should be fleshed out by the player. As you both note, they are not half-cats, so the half-orc example does not fit. And it's not like you choose whether a human character has a monkey tail or not, right?

 

[Jdvn1]

You misunderstand me. Because the difference between humans and cats is so great, specifying some combination of human and feline features leaves a lot of room for variation. This is why the analogy to half-orcs is a poor one. It is irrelevant how the creatures came to have a hybrid form.

I think we were talking about different things here. When you said:

Do you see this cat-man as basically a cat with some humanoid features, a humanoid with some feline features, or something in between?

The description sounds more like a cat with some humanoid features, but I'd rather picture a humanoid with feline features. I'd prefer new races which might show up in human cities and order a pint in the Red Dragon Inn not to be substantially more exotic than the variety of races already likely to be found there.

You were talking about, as I understood it, description. Only description. No mechanics. Being Humanoid or Animal isn't part of this, at least as far as Iunderstood. When I responded with:

I'd hope that the players have some say on this. Like with half-orcs, some people show one side more than the other. In a similar manner, some Katara seem more human while others seem more cat-like. As long as there's no mechanical benefit or disadvantage (as in, it's obvious they're Katara regardless), then it's just an opportunity for characterization

I was still talking only about description. Then suddently, this seems to talk about mechanics:

I couldn't see cat-like humanoids and human-like cats as being the same species. And if you mean to imply that the player can decide whether her Katara has the Humanoid type or the Animal type -- I think that's out of the question, if they're supposed to be the same race.

After that, I think things got muddy. I bring up the analogy to half-orcs because I've seen pictures of half-orcs that look rather orcish. I've seen others that look much more human. In the same way, I'm fine with Katara that looks very human and other Katara that have more pronounced cat-like features. What the player looks like isn't mechanical, and I don't see a problem with leaving this up to the player.

Now, if you're talking mechanics, that's a different story.

 

[Bront]

I understand the confusion and it's an interesting discussion.

They ultimately aren't either, they are the Katara. They have some Cat-like traits, they have some humanoid traids, and they have some traits that are probably fairly unique to them (opposable thumbed paws

Their society, as said before, is built on their curiosity and intrinsic respect for how things work. They look up to other longer lived societies as interesting examples and try to use/take what they can from them. Of course, they probably pick up on the more unusual things of other races.

As to them acting cat like vs man like, I think they are more likely to resemble men due to their being sentient, but with several cat-like traits in their personality.

 

[orsal]

Jdvn1: when you quoted me

Do you see this cat-man as basically a cat with some humanoid features, a humanoid with some feline features, or something in between?

The description sounds more like a cat with some humanoid features, but I'd rather picture a humanoid with feline features. I'd prefer new races which might show up in human cities and order a pint in the Red Dragon Inn not to be substantially more exotic than the variety of races already likely to be found there.

...you missed where, in the same post, I continued

Also, if this is a cat-man with the accent on "man", its type would naturally be Humanoid, but if the accent is on cat, what type is it? It should be explicit. I'm leaning toward opposing any player race of type other than Humanoid.

I was interested both in establishing formal Type and in the flavour aspect.

As to them acting cat like vs man like, I think they are more likely to resemble men due to their being sentient, but with several cat-like traits in their personality.

To me, it's as much how they are viewed as how they act. If I'm not familiar with Katara until one greets me in the Red Dragon Inn, am I likely to think, "Wow, more kinds of people than I had been aware of in this world", or am I likely to think, "Did I just hear an anthropomorphic cat speak to me? I think I've had too much to drink." I'm a lot more comfortable with the kind of race that would provoke the former reaction than the latter.

 

[Jdvn1]

Jdvn1: when you quoted me
...you missed where, in the same post, I continued
I was interested both in establishing formal Type and in the flavour aspect.

I didn't miss it. The part I quoted originally is the only part I was refering to. I intentionaly only quoted half of your post (originally, I mean) because I felt the other half should be addressed by Bront. I think that's where our misunderstand comes from, though.

 

[Bront]

To me, it's as much how they are viewed as how they act. If I'm not familiar with Katara until one greets me in the Red Dragon Inn, am I likely to think, "Wow, more kinds of people than I had been aware of in this world", or am I likely to think, "Did I just hear an anthropomorphic cat speak to me? I think I've had too much to drink." I'm a lot more comfortable with the kind of race that would provoke the former reaction than the latter.

Well, they're not going to speak in a hiss or meow all the time or anything like that. Their cat-like traits mostly revolve around curiosity as well as a few physical traits. However, other than being extremely curious, they are more human than cat. I'm not going to give them a racial like of milk and fish, have them inately chase mice, or make them sleep at least 16 hours a day. They don't have claws, bite, or caught up hairballs either. So, while you might find one strange, they are different enough from a normal cat (They stand, they have opposable thumbs, ect) to be unique.

I see them coming from a fairly isolated foresty region, having only slowly been moving west. Being furry, they are naturaly a bit more skitish about getting wet (kind of like a dwarf), so ship travel is something they have generaly avoided in large groups untill ships from other races reached them.

Their fur is likely because of the harsher winters in the area. Their increadable jumping and balance lets them pounce from tree to tree and avoid larger predators while hunting for smaller game (They are small remember). With the thick canopy, they developed low light vision, and keep ears to find their prey and predators.

Some of their initial settlements were likely higher up in the trees (another reason they likely didn't have many boats), and they were likely curious and cautious about approaching the larger humanoid races (perhaps they have had problems with another evil race, and are therefore were a bit shy about showing themselves to these other races that showed up).


This is good stuff. I'll have to rewrite and flesh out some of it.

 

[Jdvn1]

Can't link to something that doesn't exist, I'm afraid. :\ Wish I could, though.

Oh oh! Do you mean this?

 

[Knight Otu]

Oh oh! Do you mean this?

That's the basic sketch, not the full map.

And just for scale, the attachment. (WARNING! HUGE!)