D&D 5E The Magical Martial

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

Oh, cool.

So what sort of stunts does that allow md-jump? How 'unusually long' as that jump going to be and what's the Dc for it?

Ask you DM? Oh, so not empowered on the player side at all and not consistent across tables like I've been talking about this whole time?

Yeah. So I don't think you're addressing what I'm talking about.

Yes we are coming at this from very different perspectives. Describing my actions and being able to attempt it is all the rules I want and need as a player. I am only limited by my imagination. I prefer a rules light game, it seems you want a rules heavy game. I guess 5e being fairly rules light (it could be more so IMO) is good for me and bad for you. Either be disgruntled and complain (not typically good for your health) or find a different game. I suggest PF2, give it a try it is a great game.

PS - I have no idea about the jump rules in PF2

 

[dave2008]

And the Jump ability check strictly limits how far and high one can jump.

Hence the problem I have with it.

So you want no limits? You tell the DM you want to jump and just succeed? Any rule that limits your jump without DM adjudication is strictly limiting.

As a DM, I am curious: How would a jump rule empower you?

 

[dave2008]

To me, the non-magical martial, by 20th level should be able to do things like:

• Pick up and move a 400 lb. boulder, and break it in half with a single karate chop
• Snipe a running enemy with a longbow from a mile away
• Kill an army, bare naked, while surrounded (with Flanking rules active) with the jawbone of a donkey
• Swim to an island miles away in full plate mail armor, in a thunderstorm while fending off a kraken
• Lasso a flying dragon, haul it to the ground and subdue it to use it as their mount
• While bleeding out (at 0 hp) keep on fighting for the next half hour

These don't have to be things that they can do unfailingly, every single time. But at the same time, they should possible at least once between long rests or so.

How does that possibly look nonmagical to you? Those are all mundane actions, yes, but at an impossible level of strength or ability.

 

[CreamCloud0]

Blame WotC for that. I liked the different xp tables classes had in the TSR editions.

sure sure, but my point is EXP progression got standardised to match each other but the power scale of the classes themselves didn't get standardised to match each other, or if they did it didn't happen enough to compensate for the LFQW power/functionality disparity.

 

[Gammadoodler]

The Fighter is extra good at combat.

For me the problem is, many Fighter fans say, the Fighter "cant have nice things" because it lacks magic.

The only way past this is, the Fighter absolutely is magical − therefore it will eventually get nice things.

Or..we can come to an understanding that nice things don't need to be hardlocked behind a 'magic' tag.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Or..we can come to an understanding that nice things don't need to be hardlocked behind a 'magic' tag.

What's wrong with a 'magic' tag (or 'supernatural', which is my preference)? If you're doing stuff that is beyond what a mundane person can accomplished unaided, how is that not supernatural? And why is calling that out such a problem for some people? What do you lose by being honest about it?

 

[Clint_L]

To me, the non-magical martial, by 20th level should be able to do things like:

• Pick up and move a 400 lb. boulder, and break it in half with a single karate chop
• Snipe a running enemy with a longbow from a mile away
• Kill an army, bare naked, while surrounded (with Flanking rules active) with the jawbone of a donkey
• Swim to an island miles away in full plate mail armor, in a thunderstorm while fending off a kraken
• Lasso a flying dragon, haul it to the ground and subdue it to use it as their mount
• While bleeding out (at 0 hp) keep on fighting for the next half hour

These don't have to be things that they can do unfailingly, every single time. But at the same time, they should possible at least once between long rests or so.

See, I would hate this. With a passion. That just sounds like the Marvel TTRPG, not D&D to me.

 

[dave2008]

Or..we can come to an understanding that nice things don't need to be hardlocked behind a 'magic' tag.

It all depends on what those nice things are?

Meteor Storm has a range of mile and causes massive devastation in for separate huge areas. How do we replicate that "nice thing" with a mundane martial?

Planeshift allows you to travel to other realities. How do we replicate that "nice thing" with a mundane martial?

Fly allows you to fly through the air. How do we replicate that "nice thing" with a mundane martial?"

etc...

There are some "nice things" that cannot be replicated without magic.

 

[Minigiant]

Okay. I made a "Battle Axe Mastery" feat that gives +1 Damage and +1 Accuracy to all Battleaxes. Is my character now a sufficient master of the Battleaxe? He has a Mastery Feat now after all.

Actually, let's go crazy.

"Master of All Weapons" +1 to damage and Accuracy for all weapons. Is that enough?

If it isn't... then what are you using to define "mastery"?

For 5e, Weapon Mastery is Proficiency + Fighting style + X Mastery Feat

For Skills there is just Expertise.

The issue is cost. TSR, WOTC, and even others like Paizo overvalue and under provide feats to replicate many of the high level Mundanes of Media

 

[Clint_L]

is there not dozens upon dozens of threads complaining about that very issue that casters are vastly more 'powerful' than martials and that they are not at all equal past like, 8th level if that.

there was a very meaningful reason the classes had different EXP progressions in earlier editions.

There are many threads. Mostly created by the same people. I'm not sure what that shows, other than a few folks on this forum have that as a pet issue.

EXP progression in 1e or whatever is not super relevant to 5e as class balance is completely different. However, clerics and illusionists levelled faster than fighters in 1e, so even there I'm not sure where you are going. According to the 1e EXP tables, magic-users were only marginally more powerful than paladins and rangers, both of whom are martial classes. And then you have the weird classes like assassins, druids, and monks who were level-capped but needed piles of EXP at those top levels. Plus bard.