The New Core Rulebook

[Scribble]

If that doesn't work, we'll be seeing a brand new set of 5e products down the road, once sales of 4e products don't meet their needs. If it does, then perhaps cries of "4E 4Ever!" will continue to ring out 10 or 20 years from now. (Seems unlikely.)

I'm in the camp that believes they built 4e the way they built it so they can exist with this base system for a very long time...

One of the comments made at Gencon (by Mearls if I remember right) was about how 4e is taking a queue from the MTG style of base rules plus exceptions- which allows them to have basically had the same base rules for 17 years...

I think they really want to work along those lines.

 

[Quickleaf]

I'm excited to see this new direction how they're distinguishing print products from DDi. But our group has had some frustration with most of us who can't keep up with the errata/changes and those using DDi to stay on top of the rules. It's like we're in this transition stage with D&D where it's not yet clear to us whether to stick with old rules or use the updates in each case. It's interesting.

 

[Mercurius]

Re: occam and Scribble's last two posts - exactly. Any new "editions", per se, will be more of "state of the rules" updates, snapshots of where the living D&D system is at the moment. This is why I see a revised PHB as a good thing and almost inevitable.

DDI allows WotC to spit out new variations of presentation, angled at different markets, rather than new editions. Essentials might give them a bump but I'm sure they're already trying to figure out what their next big marketing wave. I think the smart thing to do would be to make DDI so good that everyone wants it. Flesh out the Adventure Tools with a variety of Builders - NPCs, Dungeons, Encounters, even Classes, Feats, etc. Create a tiered subscription (even with Heroic, Paragon, and Epic as names) so that it is very cheap to have basic access, but more expensive the more tools you want, with exclusive content for the "Epic" subscribers.

DDI can keep on evolving, keep on filling out and tweaking the rules through micro-changes. There wouldn't need to be a true "5E" unless D&D transformed completely. But there could be new physical presentations of the core rules every few years as they try to meet different markets. First we had the 4E core rulebooks, now we have the Essentials product line; in a few years it could be something completely different, or it could be a revision of the original core. It might be that the basic framework of the Essentials box sets is a glimpse into the future in that they offer something you can't get through DDI: bits and pieces, physical toys that we game-geeks love. As much as I like hardcovers they simply don't offer that.

But no matter what happens in the future, I think there will always be at least hardcover versions of the Big Three. Talk about iconic and a sacred cow. One would hope!

 

[Mercurius]

I'm excited to see this new direction how they're distinguishing print products from DDi. But our group has had some frustration with most of us who can't keep up with the errata/changes and those using DDi to stay on top of the rules. It's like we're in this transition stage with D&D where it's not yet clear to us whether to stick with old rules or use the updates in each case. It's interesting.

Yeah, I hear you. My approach has a pretty strong DM Fiat element, so the little rules don't matter as much. But none of my players realize that there has been a ton of errata, and that some of their powers may actually be better now. I've been hesitant to say anything because it might just cause confusion, but I did get the RC and will tell them that it supercedes previous rule books.

 

[Jack99]

Huh? I'm not sure what you're trying to say here, or why you are, or sound, irked.



Again, what's your problem? What am I saying that is offensive or is controversial at all?

Not irked, and no problems here. Just pointing out that you are wrong (IMO), when you say:

I write all of this not because I think WotC should cater to my personal tastes, but because as someone who has purchased two-thirds of the 4E hardcovers--at a total MSRP of over $700--my tastes mean something, and I think are a good example of why many people aren't buying certain books.

 

[Mercurius]

So are you saying that my tastes mean nothing? Or that many people aren't buying books for the reasons I cite? Or both?

 

[Scribble]

So are you saying that my tastes mean nothing? Or that many people aren't buying books for the reasons I cite? Or both?

Well- perhaps he means that he just doesn't think your tastes means what you think they mean?


I mean your tastes without a doubt mean you are willing to spend a good deal of money on a certain type of product, but that's pretty much everything we can infer from it without knowing other numbers.

We don't know if your tastes would be a good business direction to follow. (And from how things appear to be changing, on the outside it at least appears they weren't...)

 

[Mercurius]

I think I have been clear that my personal tastes are just that, and not something WotC should base its business model off of (I'm not that hubristic!). But I also think they mean something, and that there are others like me - that don't buy certain books because it is much cheaper to get the relevant info in DDI updates. And notice that I said "are a good example"; perhaps I should have emphasized "example" better.

To what degree people are doing this, I don't know. It may not be a significant enough number for WotC to take note. But I would be surprised if it was that small. It may also be that a larger problem for them is something else that I'm an example of: Subscribing to DDI once very six months or so, downloading new updates and Dragon and Dungeon PDFs, then unsubscribing. That way I pay about $20 a year for all the content of CB and AV, plus Dungeon and Dragon. I don't get the Compendium but I can live with that.

Which comes back to the idea that DDI is the core, that whether I or anyone likes it or not, it might behoove them to focus on getting more subscriptions, making that the central hub for the rules. In order to do this I think they would have to both improve and develop DDI, and also add a more layered subscription plan, with different "tiers." If DDI was more fleshed out with more web-only tools like Compendium, I might be more inclined to pay a monthly subscription. But because most of the value of DDI, for me at least, is tied up in the Character and Monster Builders, I see no reason to not change my subscription strategy.

 

[Scribble]

If DDI was more fleshed out with more web-only tools like Compendium, I might be more inclined to pay a monthly subscription. But because most of the value of DDI, for me at least, is tied up in the Character and Monster Builders, I see no reason to not change my subscription strategy.

I think the next update might be something pretty substantial... Whatever the "web tool" is.

I don't know of course- but I get the feeling.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

The problem with the OP's position IMHO is it assumes that the DDI Compendium is actually a full rules source, which it is NOT! There are no rules for reading a power, LoS and LoE determination, or 100 other things. Often there are just glossary entries, which aren't even always applicable and don't cover a lot of details.

As a DM I still need and want MP1, MP2, etc. I have about as many books as anyone, most of the 4e hardbacks. I mean ordinarily I can rely on the Compendium, but just not for all things, and a LOT of those things are in splat books. The Compendium is also getting progressively more error-ridden. Someone needs to do DATA qc!! Monsters are especially bad. Often I have to look them up in an MM. Half the time they are in some obscure source I don't even have. So I'd need Compendium to be accurate and complete before it replaces at least the core books for me. If I were a player, I might be less tempted to buy every book as a player perhaps, but I never do that!