The OGL, The SRD, and a "New Breed" of Games...

[Scribble]

I'd say that the opening up of trademarks is not actually relevant, and that the point Chris Pramas makes is the fundamental issue - they may not be releasing all their text online in a downloadable SRD, but the new mechanics and rules which are being invented *are* being released as OGC and so new people can pick them up and develop them further.

Well yeah, and as I said I agree and understand... Which is why I'm not saying they "should" release it as a downloadable SRD. I'm simply waxing philosophical about what would happen to the game itself if they DID (say for some reason, the companies felt it would help their sales and market position.) since the original SRD and d20 idea had a definite effect...

So again, I'm not campaigning that they do... I'm just a curious guy.

I'm probably wrong, but it seems to me that the companies who took the risk of pushing the boundaries of design (and largely going OGL) are the ones who have succeeded, and those who were less adventurous and stuck more closely to the d20 trademark have not done so well.

This observation is skewed by my personal preferences, of course! Cheers

Who's isn't?

But in anycase, sure, maybe the ones who moved away are doing better. They "evolved" the game. They took the game, and tweaked it as they saw fit.

Now what would happen (to the game itself) if they totaly opened them up and srd'd their works, and made it as easy to use the logo as WOTC originaly did.

The to the game itself is the important part, because it's ignoring whether or not this would be a good move for the company itself.

Would it continue along into many variants, or would it eventually morph back into one game (pretending that it always stayed fully open) especially since the market for RPGs in general isn't terribly large.

 

[SteveC]

Conan, from what I've heard, will be Runequest, not d20 based OGL, upon it's second edition.

Sorry to comment on this one point when I agree with the rest of your post, but I certainly hope this is not the case, as it would really end any interest I have in the product line. BRP is a fine game system (really it is) but for Conan? BLEH!

Sorry about the interjection...really, but I just had a :\ moment after reading that.

--Steve

 

[RyanD]

I think one of the most important changes that has happened is that publishers now have to tell their customers why they are being asked to buy and learn a new game system.

The explosion of indy games via the forge shows a wide range of special-purpose game engines, most of which exist because the game requires a specific game engine. Prior to the OGL/D20 era, many publishers produced new games because they had no alternative, even if a D&D varient would have been a better option.

This switch - from a preponderance of "new games" to a preponderance of "special purpose games" has pushed creative boundaries, and it has awakened both publishers and customers to some of the hidden "costs" of being an active pariticpant in a game network.

Ryan

 

[Breakdaddy]

I'd say that being 'free' has almost ruined the SRD in that too many people, with the low cost to publishing, flooded the market and have 'scared' away some of the talent that might've gone to making great books and we are now seeing a... flood is too strong a word, but a renisance of non-d20, non-OGL style games, even in the fantasy vein and let me say, if you're setting is using dragons and knights and dwarves and elves and it ain't d20, it ain't for me.

I couldve sworn you played Warhammer FRP...

 

[JoeGKushner]

I couldve sworn you played Warhammer FRP...

I do.

I also play Fantasy Hero.

And.. don't tell anyone, but Palladium Fantasy. (Love Blue Flame as a concept.)

Rolemaster and even the RMSS (Rolemaster Standard System)

Also messing with Burning Wheel and Artesia.

But Warhammer is an old game. I've played it for years. Ditto for RMSS.

Fantasy Hero is a variant/sourcebook for Hero which I've used for Champions for years.

Palladium Fantasy in some ways is the first heartbreaker system based heavily off of AD&D.

Burning Wheel is different. Still reading it.

Artesia is based off Fusion.

I'm still a sucker for a good looking book, but for me personally, the "sell" line has become a lot higher in terms of investing in new systems.

For brand new people coming to the hobby, they probably have no problem picking up new systems and trying out different things. They don't know what their... taste is yet. But as they get older and their free time dwindles, what real motivation outside of say, reading material, is someone going to have for buying another new game system that they probably won't use? :\

But that doesn't have a lot to do with OGL/SRD which I think is a good idea but with no checks and balances in place, allowed too much stuff, of both quality and crap, to come out which resulted in my opinion, saturation which is why I'd be, intellictually, against another game company completely opening up their systems because the resulting flood of product would serve to dilute the brand name and result in only the 'official' rules being the mainstreams anyway.

 

[mythusmage]

Sorry to comment on this one point when I agree with the rest of your post, but I certainly hope this is not the case, as it would really end any interest I have in the product line. BRP is a fine game system (really it is) but for Conan? BLEH!

Sorry about the interjection...really, but I just had a :\ moment after reading that.

--Steve

Wrong system. The new Runequest system is derived from Runequest second edition published by Chaosium. BRP was originally the system developed for Call of Cthulhu, then later adapted for other Chaosium games. As a matter of fact, BRP was never used for Runequest, not even for Runequest 3 from Avalon Hill.

In short, BRP is an adaptation of the Runequest system.

Keep in mind that Runequest grew out of Greg Stafford's stories of the world of Glorantha, and the land of Genertela. The whole being his exploration of myth. Glorantha works on the logic of magic. It also draws from authors such as Lovecraft, Merrit, and Howard. The last most especially in the epic struggle between the Sartar of Dragon Pass, and the Lunar Empire.

It's dark and gritty, with a system made for scenes out of Conan. It's not made for heroes, but you can do heroic things.

 

[Acid_crash]

Sorry to comment on this one point when I agree with the rest of your post, but I certainly hope this is not the case, as it would really end any interest I have in the product line. BRP is a fine game system (really it is) but for Conan? BLEH!

Sorry about the interjection...really, but I just had a :\ moment after reading that.

--Steve

And I'm the opposite, I think Runequest would be a better fit for Conan than the current d20 verison of the game.

 

[Umbran]

Would it continue along into many variants, or would it eventually morph back into one game (pretending that it always stayed fully open) especially since the market for RPGs in general isn't terribly large.

I don't think it would "morph back". I think, by and large, it would be ignored.

There's two basic reasons to take a currently existing game and change it - one is to produce different game flavor, the other is to trade off the popularity of the currently existing game. The latter has the problem of diminishing returns - the fewer people play a game, the less you can trade off its popularity.

D&D is the biggest critter on the block, so Arcana Unearthed/Evolved can trade off it. But fewer people play AE, so there's less to gain in trying to steal those players. It makes more sense to continue feeding more directly off the original.

As for the former, we already have the "Oh, its another d20 game" issue. The market has a pile of games that use variants of the d20 mechanic. In business terms, it is not wise to jump into the middle of a small market that has lots of players unless you are really, really special.