D&D 5E The Problem with Constitution

[Xeviat]

I'd have no trouble running an 8 CON Rogue, Monk, or any Archer build. Wizards with 4-8 CON are OK too, as I think Raistlin is one of the most interesting PCs in D&D lore.

See, one thing I was thinking of was giving every class the same HD. Heck, maybe just fix it to the size HD like monsters. Mediums get 1d8, Smalls get 1d6. Then, Constitution is THE way to raise your HP. This would need to be coupled with a Con score to HP thing and maybe max HP for PCs or something so it feels right.

I think we'd be in the same situation, but it's an interesting thought. Tanky frontliners would want higher con, backliners wouldn't care as much.

Looking at video games, I know I don't care about my HP stat in games where dodging is an active ability. If I feel good enough about my ability to dodge attacks, I feel like I need HP less. But the way AC works in D&D, heavy armor and high dex light armored characters have about the same AC and nothing feels different between them. If HP were more fixed, than DR could be used more and constitution could be done as Damage Reduction ... but that gets us into a whole nother territory.

 

[5ekyu]

You know, something I thought of a while back that would at make at least one class con-based: Sorcerers, and maybe even Barbarians...

I get the Cha as main stat because of the strength of personality, willpower, whatever. Why couldn't Sorcerers use Con and have their magic actually channeling through the body? They already have it as a save proficiency, and with Bards and Warlocks, we really don't need three Cha-based classes! I would like to move some warrior classes more away from Strength for the same reason, which is reasonable since many (not all) Rangers favor Dex builds over Str builds. Also Barbarians are known for their hardiness, of course, so could easily be a second viable option for Con.

Str: Fighters, Paladins
Dex: Monks, Rangers, Rogues
Con: Rangers, Sorcerers
Int: Wizards
Wis: Clerics, Druids
Cha: Bards, Warlocks

Just some initial thoughts on the idea.

Sorcs using Con not Cha would be a change in my new 5e.
Just like Warlocks using Wis not Cha.

 

[WhosDaDungeonMaster]

Sorcs using Con not Cha would be a change in my new 5e.
Just like Warlocks using Wis not Cha.

LOL something we agree on! The idea of Warlocks going to Wisdom is an interesting idea...

Another option with Con concerning hit points I have experimented in the past with 1E/2E was the Con mod adds to hit points for the level, but you cannot exceed the maximum for your hit die type. So, a Fighter with +3 Con bonus will have 4-10 hit points per level, as any result of 7 or more on the d10 is treated as 10.

 

[Stalker0]

In general I agree that con is the ultimate "middle ground stat". Its never anyone's highest, but never the lowest. In my current group, there is one person with a 10, but its a rare thing indeed.

Whether that's truly a "problem" though? Hey at least its not a dump stat, I think the fact that many classes will throw an 8 into XYZ without a second though is a worse problem overall.

 

[Greenstone.Walker]

…the strong-guy, the agile-guy, the smart-guy, the wise-guy (not the wiseguy), and the charming-guy (sometimes the wiseguy). The tough-guy archetype significantly overlaps with the strong-guy.

High CON is the "resilient guy", sometimes known as "the Energiser bunny".

The character that never gets sick. That never gets tired. That shrugs off poison and keeps plodding along. That drinks everyone else under the table and still walks home having a discussion without slurring. That never gives up, that refuses to fall down before their opponent does.

They are the rock of the group. When others get tired, the resilient one offers them a shoulder and keeps going.

High CON characters are boxers. They can go ten rounds and still be delivering effective blows long after the high STR character (who hits real hard) has collapsed in a puddle of exhaustion.

 

[Immortal Sun]

Being a big fan of point-based systems, I'd love to see a "fatigue" system for fighters and a "mana" (spell points) system as the primary systems for maneuvers or spells for all classes.

 

[Xeviat]

Being a big fan of point-based systems, I'd love to see a "fatigue" system for fighters and a "mana" (spell points) system as the primary systems for maneuvers or spells for all classes.

I've actually been playing with a system that would utilize poker chips to keep track of point pools like that.

 

[Immortal Sun]

I've actually been playing with a system that would utilize poker chips to keep track of point pools like that.

I've been working on a similar system to better apply the MTG "mana" system, colors included into D&D.

 

[WhosDaDungeonMaster]

Being a big fan of point-based systems, I'd love to see a "fatigue" system for fighters and a "mana" (spell points) system as the primary systems for maneuvers or spells for all classes.

A fairly easy fatigue system would be using the Con score for the number of turns before a penalty of some sort is applied. For a Con 10, that would mean 10 rounds or 1 minute of combat or strenuous activity. That would make Con meaningful for a different reason, but since it boosts HP, that hasn't really been an issue in the past!

 

[Immortal Sun]

A fairly easy fatigue system would be using the Con score for the number of turns before a penalty of some sort is applied. For a Con 10, that would mean 10 rounds or 1 minute of combat or strenuous activity. That would make Con meaningful for a different reason, but since it boosts HP, that hasn't really been an issue in the past!

Well, the trick is making it able to scale per level, and also able to be flexible enough for the guy who wants to make several regular attacks per round, and the guy who wants to make a few really big attacks. Much like the spell points system allows.

The simplest approach was to just duplicate the spell points system and apply Con as its modifier instead of Int/Wis/Cha and develop several maneuvers that spent those points in the same way the spell points system does.

But it felt very "samey". I don't personally mind that but I wanted something a little more. I haven't come up with something satisfying yet.