D&D (2024) The rapier problem

CleverNickName

Limit Break Dancing (He/They)
I love swashbuckling characters, I do. But there should not be one best weapon in the game for a huge swath of characters. But right now, there is: the rapier.
(snip)
What do you think? Is this a problem in your game? Have you attempted to fix it in some fashion?
I changed the damage from 1d8 to 1d6. It's only a difference of 1 point, on average, but you would think they are all suddenly radioactive judging by how fiercely the players avoid it. "Only one dee six damage?! HISSSSSS!!!"

Then, just for the swashbucklers in my game, I added in a new weapon called the Cutlass. It's mechanically identical to a shortsword, but I don't think anyone has noticed yet. They're still too busy grumbling about the rapier, and trying to decide how many pistols they can afford.
 

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FitzTheRuke

Legend
there are moments in fencing when blades "bind" and you are close to your opponent, then a broken bottle across the neck or face is better than a punch, and dagger would be even better as you can block with dagger, you cannot with a hand: I guess you can block once with a hand, but it is not recommended.
You can block with a hand. It's just difficult because you have to avoid all the sharp/pointy bits. It's a timing/angle thing. Should be used as a last resort, though, you're right about that.
 

You can block with a hand. It's just difficult because you have to avoid all the sharp/pointy bits. It's a timing/angle thing. Should be used as a last resort, though, you're right about that.
The assumption when blocking with hands is that you're wearing gloves, which many nobles at the time did in fact wear. And that the hands are sort of cupped so less surface area touches the sharp part.
 

Sample of a table that we are trying for melee weapons.
Not perfect, but it gives weight to every weapon trait.
Every trait reduces weapon base damage.
Boost to STR based weapons.

Weapon traitsSimple weapon damageexampleMartial weapon damageexample
1Handed, Versatiled8(d10)maced10(d12)longsword
1Handed, Thrownd6javelind8trident
1Handed, finessed6long knifed8rapier
1Handed, lightd6clubd8arming sword
1Handed, reach, Versatiled6 (d8)speard8(d10)partisan
1Handed, finesse, lightd4daggerd6shorsword
1Handed, finesse, reachd4whipd6dagger whip
1Handed, finesse, thrownd4dartd6throwing hammer
1Handed, light, thrownd4pillumd6throwing axe
1Handed, finesse, light, thrownd3throwing knifed4chakram
2Handed, heavy2d6warmace2d8greatsword
2Handedd12greatclub2d6claymore
2Handed, heavy, reachd12pike2d6pole-ax
2Handed, reachd10longspeard12glaive
2Handed, finessed10bo staffd12elven courtblade
2Handed, finesse, reachd8elven speard10spiked chain
I like this.

and to add to it, if you don't even make actual weapons, people can just customize the ones they want and then skin them as whatever they want.

Grim Tales, a d20 modern had a neat way to customize weapons. These are d20 modern rules. You'd have to change them up - since X3 crits don't exist in 5e.

Simple Melee Weapons:
Base Damage: d6
Base Threat Range: 20
Multiplier: X3
Size: Medium

Decrease the multiplier to X2 to improve threat to 19-20
Decrease multiplier to X2 to improve damage die 1 step
Decrease multiplier to X2 to allow weapon to be thrown. (slashing/bludgeoning are 10 foot range, piercing 20 feet)
Increase size to Large (2handed) to improve dmage die by 1 max d8
Decrease Damage Die to d4 to make it small

Martial weapons start at d8. making them large increases damage dice by two, Max d12
 


Gorck

Prince of Dorkness
An easier fix than my first one/post is create a new scimitar for your character with a d8. Change the name a bit, say your far-flung relative has been making this type of sword for decades, and no one can complain because the rapier still does d8, and the normal scimitar still does d6. Who can tell you that your family sword-making secret is wrong?
Falchion?
there are moments in fencing when blades "bind" and you are close to your opponent, then a broken bottle across the neck or face is better than a punch, and dagger would be even better as you can block with dagger, you cannot with a hand: I guess you can block once with a hand, but it is not recommended.
This is one part of 2-weapon fighting in 5e that I dislike. You can't do the traditional Spanish style of Rapier/Longsword & Dagger because both weapons need to have the Light property.
 

this is all true, but what damage then for a 1Handed weapon without light and finesse property like a longsword?
Maybe bump it up to 1d10(versatile 1d12), and then 2d8 for the greatweapons? If the Great Weapon master feat is nerfed in 1D&D (as it should be) then two handed weapons deserve a significant damage boost to make up for not being able to use a shield.
 

Whizbang Dustyboots

Gnometown Hero
This is one part of 2-weapon fighting in 5e that I dislike. You can't do the traditional Spanish style of Rapier/Longsword & Dagger because both weapons need to have the Light property.
My son, who clearly has seen a lot of Assassin's Creed videos, insists on having his swashbuckler fight with two rapiers. Hardly optimal, but he did almost everything else he could to optimize, so he's still a damage beast.
 

Whizbang Dustyboots

Gnometown Hero
Nothing, really. I was going off the premise that you had already written off houseruling (which is pretty easy - a rapier is clearly a d4 weapon).
I haven't written off house ruling -- I use quite a bit of them in my home games -- but this is the 1D&D forum. WotC has a chance to do modest tweaks to weapons systems in 1D&D. (Smaller than 3.5, which had disruptive changes on that front.)
 
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Azzy

ᚳᚣᚾᛖᚹᚢᛚᚠ (He/Him/His)
It's a shame that 5e didn't include crit ranges like 3e did. That would have been another way way to make weapons meaningfully different from each other. But then I have a few complaints about what 5e did to the weapon and and armor tables.
 

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