D&D (2024) The rapier problem

[Micah Sweet]

I love swashbuckling characters, I do. But there should not be one best weapon in the game for a huge swath of characters. But right now, there is: the rapier.

If I want to make a genasi Thief of Bagdad style swashbuckler, I will be costing myself damage output (the main contribution swashbucklers bring to a party) by going with a scimitar instead of a rapier. Likewise a halfling thief with a short sword, or any other aesthetic choices that are, by the math, "wrong."

(See also no one using slings or a host of other weapons, because it's never the right decision to make.)

I'm not sure what the fix is.

Make weapon stats more similar, with only flavor between them? I believe there's an OSR game (maybe either the White or Black Hack) where every class does a set amount of damage, no matter what weapon they're using.

Make weapon stats far more complex, with every weapon being situationally good? The odds are that there will still be a "best" weapon and it'll just take the hardcore math types throwing everything into a spreadsheet to determine what it is.

What do you think? Is this a problem in your game? Have you attempted to fix it in some fashion?

I went with option 2, and have created a massive equipment chapter for my games with many, many weapons from a variety of eras. Some are certainly better situationally, but variety is encouraged.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Str has no problems.

With the new grab and shove options better integrated, str already is miles ahead for a fighter that wants to be sticky.
Also versatile weapons are improved:

Opportunity attack: grapple.

Next turn: attack with one handed longsword.

Rapier problem has never been one.

Probably, if two weapon fighting gets a little overhaul, short swords might become viable again too.

 

[Horwath]

Just give rapiers the versatile feature in return for the lower damage die.

rapier is exclusive 1Handed weapon, I don't see how you could 2Hand it with effectiveness.

 

[Horwath]

A "saber" that's d8 slashing and finesse would add some weapon choice for today's rapier users.

It's fine that the rapier does more damage than a short sword, since the short sword is meant for dual wielders.

this is all true, but what damage then for a 1Handed weapon without light and finesse property like a longsword?

 

[GMMichael]

What about 5E weapons is so compelling that you'd want it preserved?

Nothing, really. I was going off the premise that you had already written off houseruling (which is pretty easy - a rapier is clearly a d4 weapon). The next best thing is to play RAW, and smooth out the rules imperfections (in D&D? Never!) with role-play. After that, you can make 3rd-party products or start a petition for WotC...

They're not a terribly good simulation of how weapons work in the real world. They're not particularly balanced against each other. And the melee capabilities of each class aren't always evenly distributed.

Weapons don't need to be balanced against each other.
Melee capabilities shouldn't be evenly distributed. (Fighter FTW)
And D&D weapons can't be terribly good simulations if D&D isn't a simulationist game.

An easier fix than my first one/post is create a new scimitar for your character with a d8. Change the name a bit, say your far-flung relative has been making this type of sword for decades, and no one can complain because the rapier still does d8, and the normal scimitar still does d6. Who can tell you that your family sword-making secret is wrong?

 

[SkidAce]

this is all true, but what damage then for a 1Handed weapon without light and finesse property like a longsword?

I understand the game balance point of view, but I dont think it needs to be adhered to for every weapon to loose a damage dice because it has a trait.

Some weapons are just better.

 

[SkidAce]

Nothing, really. I was going off the premise that you had already written off houseruling (which is pretty easy - a rapier is clearly a d4 weapon). The next best thing is to play RAW, and smooth out the rules imperfections (in D&D? Never!) with role-play. After that, you can make 3rd-party products or start a petition for WotC...

Weapons don't need to be balanced against each other.
Melee capabilities shouldn't be evenly distributed. (Fighter FTW)
And D&D weapons can't be terribly good simulations if D&D isn't a simulationist game.

An easier fix than my first one/post is create a new scimitar for your character with a d8. Change the name a bit, say your far-flung relative has been making this type of sword for decades, and no one can complain because the rapier still does d8, and the normal scimitar still does d6. Who can tell you that your family sword-making secret is wrong?

Quoted for truth.

 

[Horwath]

I understand the game balance point of view, but I dont think it needs to be adhered to for every weapon to loose a damage dice because it has a trait.

Some weapons are just better.

then everyone will carry one out of five weapons from entire game.

 

[SkidAce]

then everyone will carry one out of five weapons from entire game.

Everyone that is concerned about a point of damage perhaps.

Tell this to my whip, dagger, staff, etc players.

 

[Horwath]

Everyone that is concerned about a point of damage perhaps.

Tell this to my whip, dagger, staff, etc players.

you can have cool weapons and thematic weapons and still have them balanced.

Mind blown, I know.