The TPK curse

[Sinjin the Rogue]

There were 4 ghouls and a ghast.

The Sorcerer took an AoO because the ghouls had actually been able to flank him. He wanted to run away, but going back the way he came meant that he would take at least one AoO, but he would be able to run at 4 times his normal movement, so he would have been able to get away from all but one of the ghouls. Had he attempted to circle around, he would have only been able to perform a triple move at best, but he would have ended up putting him in a position where the remaining creatures would have all been able to attack him. So, playing the odds, he chose the one AoO. Had the AoO failed, he would have been able to get away cleanly on the next round. (I admit, I could have let that attack go, but I decided to let the dice roll count, and the hit was made. The sorcerer then failed the Fort save)

One thing you should all undertstand. I am taking my group into the Tomb of Abysthor. ToA has a number of HIGH level encounters, interspersed with encounters of an appropriate level for a party to handle. ToA is designed so that characters can come back and make additional forays into the dungeon in order to accomplish a varying number of goals. Unfortunately, since my group's strategy is usually, break in the door and attack, they will more than likely die a number of times. I am trying to prevent that, by teaching them a lesson now, so that when they get to 10th level or beyond, they won't be as inclined to perform suicidal actions. By then, they will be practically married to their characters, and a TPK at that time will mean they lose everything. I don't want that to happen.

Also, I had already pulled one of the players in my group aside and explained to him that there were going to be some tougher than normal encounters in this adventure, (This guy played the sorcerer, and he also DM's another campaign, so I figured he would know better) and that if the situation seemed too difficult to overcome, I wanted him to help me encourage the rest of the group to flee. Unfortunately, he did not do that. He was confident that the group would overcome the undead, but he did not take into consideration the bad luck they had with attack rolls.

Anyway, the ranger who survived is going to go back to town, and he is going to pick up a new group of adventurers to join him. The group is also picking up a new player, so the party will now be comprised of the ranger, a cleric, a wizard, a rogue and a monk. This group might work well, although I have mentioned that a fighter or a paladin in place of the monk might be better suited for the party's overall chances for survival at lower levels. So, we will see how this turns out.

I just hate TPK's, as it sucks the joy right out of the game.

 

[Kyramus]

Almost had a TPK this weekend myself.

I had Brachyurus wandering the mountains, checking on it's kindred when it found that a large number were killed.

1) I had described a scene where a group of hill giants were decapitated and torn apart. the same hill giants that the pc's had fought and the same giants that were using the dire wolves as pets/guard dogs.
2) it was intelligent
3) it spoke and said "you killed my brethren" no attempt was made to parley
4) there was only one person in immediate danger at the beginning, and he had winged boots. he could have flew and left the horse to the Brachyurus.
5) the others acted as follows. ranger laid in cover fire in the hopes that the priest leaves (he didn't fly away even though he keeps saying he was trying to flee) Fighter charged the brachyurus on horseback. Another character moved up with a glaive. and the shifter decided to move up to turn into a bird to get swallowed by the brachyurus and was going to shape change into something else while in the brachyurus. reflex save by the brachyurus allowed him the capability to not swallow the bird.
6) as a result the brachyurus targetted one character at a time, bringing down 4 characters before the remaining 2 left via teleport AND managing to get some body parts for ressurection.
7) there was an ambush by old foes further down the road, the brachyurus knows this and isn't willing to put himself in danger with both the pc's and the ambushers. It was quite willing to let them go had they flee and he would watch the outcome of the fight.
8) they blame me that it was a hard fight, which i explained after the game that it was not an encounter designed for combat. If they trully wanted to flee, they could have. Apparently they were more upset that I used an epic monster/creature.


party consisted of
cleric 13
rogue 12
ranger 11
shifter 12
ft/mage level 12
fighter 11

Avg party level 12-13

Ambush was set to ECL 10, not overly dangerous, but painfully annoying.
Brachyurus was cr 23, set in place as a roleplaying encounter. But when the whole group decided to use the attack cause we are being attacked, then it was doomed.

Am I at fault for setting up that encounter? I really feel that I let the dice and decisions fall where it may. I even gave it a few rounds before the Brachyurus recognized one of the party's scent that casted the fireball.

 

[Wee Jas]

Your party saw the ghouls 300ft away and attacked them. Just cause a monster is there to fight doesn't mean you HAVE to fight it. Seeing the threat they could have returned to town to get reinforcements. The group obviously thought they would win the battle and they paid for the miscalculation. Not the DMs fault.

 

[Endur]

Party of Ghouls

Well, since the party was paralyzed by ghouls/ghasts, you could have them converted into Ghouls.

That way, the players could still role-play their characters.

The new party of Ghouls could adventure in the dungeon/graveyard and fight other evil monsters. Receive missions from Ghasts and higher level undead like Vampires and Liches.

They could even haunt their old town.

Tom

 

[Sinjin the Rogue]

Incidentally

For those of you who may be bothered that I might take offense to your comments, don't worry. I won't. I realize that making these decisions is a dynamic that only the DM can fully understand.

As a DM, I try to analyze situations that turned deadly to make sure that I maintain a balance between appropriate risk and lethality. If I find that I did in fact err, then I try to use the confrontation as a learning experience. I hope that my players will also spend an appropriate amount of time reflecting their actions and using their own mistakes as a means of education and improved game play in the future.

Thank you all for your comments

 

[megamania]

It's their call to have a cleric or not. They will however learn to know when to run from a fight, especially ones involving undead.

 

[Sniktch]

Yeah, I agree with WizardDru - creatures with paralysis can quickly decimate a lower level party. But it doesn't have to be a low level party.

My current group ran into a ghoul pack when they were about 7th level. Yeah, a whole pack - I think it was three ghasts and a little more than a dozen ghouls, but it was certainly a reasonable encounter for 7 or 8 7th level characters that included three clerics. A couple of bad Fort saves and coup de grace attacks later the party was missing a third of its members.

EDIT: Personally I'm a bit of a RBDM and tend to let the chips fall where they may. I will fudge the dice sometimes when someone is undeserving of death and its just a freak mishap of the dice or some other uncontrollable event. But when my players are simply woefully inept I take great pleasure in teaching them a well-deserved lesson

 

[Morose]

Uh...

What was your party thinking? Seriously. 2 Ghouls and a Ghast against a 2nd level party? They either A) deserved to die for being stupid enough to attack such foes or B) should be mad at you for giving them some kind of notion that they could realistically win the fight. The rest of the adventuring sounded awfully fun though.

You COULD always have a freak occurence with a wandering cleric who could be convinced they need to be resurrected though. That's always a good option if they are attached to the characters.

 

[Decado]

It sounds like you did things right to me. Perhaps the opposition was a bit too powerful but the players, if they are experienced, should be able to recognize when they are outmatched. Especially if you gave one of them a hint before hand telling him that there were some encounters they should flee from.

I recently killed off a character in my campaign it all fell to bad dice rolling. I considered fudging the rolls but did not and the player latter told me that if I had fudged them he would have been pissed. Your campaign sounds very interesting and it is good that the ranger survived so you do not have to start completely from scratch.

Decado

 

[maddman75]

TPKs are needed, because it lets the group know that they WILL die if they do something stupid, such as fighting four ghouls and a ghast at 2nd level without even a cleric.

Heck, just last game I took out a 4th level rogue mano-a-mano with a ghast. Paralyzed, Coup-de-Grace. Left his head on a spike for the rest of the group to find. Also crushed one of his healing potions and dumped the glass shards into another potion and left for the party to find, doing 2d6 con damage at a very bad time.....

Para sucks