The Treasure of Treasures - and the Richness thereof

[Lwaxy]

I do not want a character's skill level to be tied to his junk.

I would like to dump the level limit on items. I want to be able to give a flying carpet or a bag of holding to a first level character if I feel like it.

I don't want to have to give thousands of coins to a player just because she's a certain level.

I don't want to have to run a magic item depot so that players can buy the junk they need to be able to deal with challenges.

I don't want potions that are just liquid scrolls, or wands either for that matter.

Magical items should be a bonus type treasure like it was in the early years. My players found stuff they, didn't require it. Things got used but rarely replaced.

Magic should be special. Something earned through hard work or found through sheer dumb luck.

Creating magic items should hurt. If a wizard (or cleric) wants to craft a wand he's going to need to waste playing time money and even some xp to do it. This is a good reason to have henchmen and followers, and not some dumb cohort you need to waste a precious feat or other thing to get. If yo have to lock yourself in a tower for a week or three you should be able to use a henchman to adventure with while the master is busy.

I'm not at all for XP use for creating anything, we've houseruled that out all the time.

Other than that, we house ruled the level= wealth or item use dependent on level out as well.

The epic group I used to play in started out with basically no money, because the premise was that we were old farts who had gambled away or otherwise lost our money and now were getting together again for one last run to get on our feet again.

The game is so flexible if you don't take the rules as written in stone

But I agree that it would be very cool to take those ideas out of the rules right away, so there won't be complaints like "but the rules say.."

 

[Lordhawkins9]

I think the reward should equal the amount of risk involved, and I would like to see a treasure system that works with the local economy.

Kobolds aren’t that much of a threat and since they’re only pillaging the local villagers, they shouldn’t have hundreds of gold in their liar. Adventurers don’t fight Kobolds to get rich…they fight them to earn some exp and buy more basic supplies to prepare them for the bigger threats that have the bigger payoffs.

Lesser magic items should be available for purchase. Scrolls, potions, maybe some lesser wands and so forth. However, the main use of wealth should be going towards Castles, lands, titles, armies…the things that Kings spend money on. Other magic items need to be found or created.

I’ve never liked an exp cost on magic items and I just stated that gold shouldn’t be used either. So maybe we could use more fleshed out rules from the 1st edition rules. Back then you needed “parts” of critters to make items. Wanted to make a Girdle of Giant Strength?...go slay a giant. Let’s get more detailed rules on that. Maybe not so specific as a laundry list of components needed for each magic item and what parts are available on each creature…I think something a little more generic would be in order.

Creatures that are mythical or not very common have x to y components…listed under treasure. Maybe you need a skill of some sort to get those components. However, they are generic. Now, if you want to create an item…it requires z number of components. The more powerful the item, the more components needed. If you want components…you have to find and deal with the creatures that provide them. Hence adventuring.

Selling items is always an option, but you have to stay within what the economy can handle. In 4th edition 30th level items were worth millions of gold. Multiple kingdoms combined wouldn’t be able to afford them.

Instead…lower the GP value of items so that the local economy can actually handle them. Low level items can be purchased by merchants, but bigger stuff is eventually going to hit a price ceiling. Even a King can only afford x thousand gold, so that’s the upper limit on what you can sell an item for. So…a +3 sword might be worth that x thousand that a King could afford and you have a +4 sword you want to sell…it’s worth the same as that +3 sword because no one can afford anything more than that.

Now if players want to create really powerful items, they’re going to have to fight a ton of powerful creatures and not be able to just sell it off to buy a kingdom of their own.

 

[mmadsen]

Lesser magic items should be available for purchase. Scrolls, potions, maybe some lesser wands and so forth.

Who is making these magic items on spec, and who is carrying all that inventory?

 

[Wormwood]

Who is making these magic items on spec, and who is carrying all that inventory?

Retired 3e characters.

 

[JoeGKushner]

I rant a little about this in my latest blog

Appendix N: The Hammer by K. J. Parker or more blathering about 5h Editio

Let me copy the pieces that are relevant

And speaking of seeking out magic items, here is another area where I think earlier editions were able to throw in a bit of fun. Magic items tended to be a little more random in their power and abilities prior to 3rd edition and this allowed paladins, who always seemed to have holy avengers, have this iconic weapon with them, despite the fact that it was such a powerful magic item and probably level inappropriate. It allowed White Plume Mountain to be stacked with items of vast and great power. It allowed rings of wishes to wind up as random treasure.

Game balance may have to take a couple of blows to the face in 5th edition if Wizards of the Coast is serious about uniting fans of all editions and that's not necessarily a bad thing.

I could also have talked about inteligent magical items, which I can't recall any unique ones in 4e, but that's just me, or the old Staff othe Magi/Power, or others but hell, 4th ed had to come out with a magic item book just to put some of the magic BACK into the game.

 

[howandwhy99]

How should treasure be handled in 5th Edition?

I've been running a reward commensurate to challenge level treasure-based world. This is not exact by any means. It's actually pretty blurry, but the direct relationship of increasing value can be discerned. It's basically the old AD&D bell curve stairway again.

I'd like it the way I do it of course, but I think everyone expects multiple options at this point.

What should it consist of, what exactly is treasure, is it the same as money (sometimes, always), how should it be exchanged, should some treasure be entirely unique, should it be ubiquitous and part of the general economy or so valuable it lies outside the normal economy or forms a part of an entirely different economy?

Treasure = Resources. This could be culturally valued resources like money or more immediately recognized resources like rations for eating or air for breathing.

These could be exchanged in just about anyway one wants. I expect you mean between the PCs and intelligent creatures, but how resources are gained, spent, and transferred is pretty much the core most any game around. For D&D I'd suggest this is all done in simulation, but others may prefer metagame mechanics.

I'd like all treasure to be unique, but the popular stuff is probably going to be more readily recognized as unique than the less so.

Treasure as magic items? I'm guessing that's the question as to whether it should be left out of the economy. I'm thinking M.I.s are like luxury yachts. Almost everyone wants one, few people have even one, and fewer people still can afford to build and sell them. Taken that way most M.I.s fit right into the economy. The catch is: is the setting fantasy magic rich in real world mundane items (like dinosaurs on the Flintstones) or are these magic items less common?

Treasure as just big piles of treasure currently out of circulation? Yeah, I want those coins to ruin the local economy. Make the bartender at the Welcome Wench a rich man because we spend lavishly there. Have immigrants flock to Hommlett as our gold we traded there begins to pour out. I pile of treasure, even if heaped into a few sacks, can still be taken. The more you get the more you need to move to or buy someplace where you can keep it.

Should magical or miraculous treasure be more important or valuable than other kinds of treasure, or does it just depend? What would you classify as treasure, and what as not?

As magic item treasure above.

How does one create treasure, assess it, employ or use it? Spend it, invest it, or increase it's value?

Boy, talk about the whole game. Adventuring for treasure, making that treasure more valuable, judging its value, employing it in your adventuring, spending it for other treasure, investing it for more treasure, driving up its value. That's really too much to answer. It gets right into the heart of the rules by which one designs their own world.

How would you handle treasure in 5th Edition?

Modularly

 

[Lordhawkins9]

Who is making these magic items on spec, and who is carrying all that inventory?

The local Herbalist who makes small cures for cuts and burns or cold remedies has 1d4 curing potions available. Same for a church, they may have a small number of various scrolls on hand that they keep on hand, but would be willing to sell or have the PC's do something for them in return.

Something like wands may only be available at larger towns with established mage guilds. Being part of a larger organization, they have resources at hand to maintain (and protect) a small cache of minor items.

Of course, the PC's could make these items themselves if they took the time to learn the skills, buy any equipment needed and gather up the resources.