D&D 5E The Warlord shouldn't be a class... change my mind!

[Manchurian]

Truly....you missed the big picture about ...Personal Customization of Characters....Theres Templates Higher Than A Class So Honestly.....I don't understand your argument.....cause most people love more epic game play.....and most people like characters to Battle high CR Rating creatures....Even If You Don't Play Divine Ascendancy For A Character.....But sometimes you can only go by what the players can handle.....We Talking Keeping Official Concept Open ....Not Closing it Off....Also Offering a choice of level of play days alot about Dm and his Party.....For Cannon Leave it As A Choice That's Open.....Cause once closed you would of wish it was open scale and match the higher Cr's in game Play

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Manchurian]

Thus giving it the ability to give allies extra attacks and heal without magic - Warlord abilities.



They don't like it because it cannot do all the things a warlord can, or as frequently, or with as much power.

And it can't do those for exactly the same reason an eldritch knight can't cast ninth level spells - because it is also a fully functional fighter.



It's exactly like the spore druid - it uses core class abilities to fuel it's subclass abilities. The only difference is there wasn't a previous spore druid class in earlier editions for people to complain it's not as good as.

I'm not particularly interested in a warlord, but if you are going to do something with anything like the power of the 4e class it CANNOT ALSO BE A FULLY FUNCTIONAL FIGHTER (or rogue or cleric or whatever).
You must not Allow DUAL CLASS / MULTI CLASS OR GESTALT CHARACTERS
Anything you tagged onto the fighter class could be, at best, 1/3 warlord, in the same way that an EK is 1/3 wizard.

.My Thoughts Exactly...But If They Scale A Party From Forgotten Realms To for instance Ebberon.....Then the creatures change and there abilities change.....in the multiverse..(..Even )Albeir-Toriel.....Greyhawk.....Hollow World.....DarkSun......Dragonlance..... Spelljamner....Planescape....Even if you scale Abilities You aren't The only Force to do that....Npc's scale also and contrary to popular belief intelligent monsters can use the magic in the treasure rooms.....It Only Doesn't Balance Out When You Have A Lazy Dm And Know What If Plan.Treat Your Npc's Like Your PC's Sometime.....The Enemies Don't always have to be stupid ....All I am saying... especially Boss types

 

[Manchurian]

.My Thoughts Exactly...But If They Scale A Party From Forgotten Realms To for instance Ebberon.....Then the creatures change and there abilities change.....in the multiverse..(..Even )Albeir-Toriel.....Greyhawk.....Hollow World.....DarkSun......Dragonlance..... Spelljamner....Planescape....Even if you scale Abilities You aren't The only Force to do that....Npc's scale also and contrary to popular belief intelligent monsters can use the magic in the treasure rooms.....It Only Doesn't Balance Out When You Have A Lazy Dm And Know What If Plan.Treat Your Npc's Like Your PC's Sometime.....The Enemies Don't always have to be stupid ....All I am saying... especially Boss types

It already is, twice over: Battlemaster and PDK.

You can't make those subclasses more powerful, because that, added to inherent fighter abilities, would make the whole character too powerful (Battlemaster is already well above the curve). In 5e subclasses cannot remove features from the core class. If you wanted to make the "command" features more powerful, you would have to weaken the character in other ways - maybe d8 hit dice, no heavy armour proficiency, no Action Surge or Second Wind perhaps. And that would require a new base class since 5e doesn't allow things to be taken away by a subclass.

No such thing as 2 powerful...... Have you Read Any Of The New Compendiums???? Simply Scale Up Your enemies to +2 on Cr rating....double frequency in enemy strong holds ...and +4 cr to boss level villians....Throw A Few Dire/Paragon Beasts In Your World.....This Recipe Works....

 

[Manchurian]

No such thing as 2 powerful...... Have you Read Any Of The New Compendiums???? Simply Scale Up Your enemies to +2 on Cr rating....double frequency in enemy strong holds ...and +4 cr to boss level villians....Throw A Few Dire/Paragon Beasts In Your World.....This Recipe Works....

You must Not Do or Play High Level Campaigning

 

[Manchurian]

It already is, twice over: Battlemaster and PDK.

You can't make those subclasses more powerful, because that, added to inherent fighter abilities, would make the whole character too powerful (Battlemaster is already well above the curve). In 5e subclasses cannot remove features from the core class. If you wanted to make the "command" features more powerful, you would have to weaken the character in other ways - maybe d8 hit dice, no heavy armour proficiency, no Action Surge or Second Wind perhaps. And that would require a new base class since 5e doesn't allow things to be taken away by a subclass.

That's why templates was made to balance the enemies according to level of Play Of Player Characters

 

[Garthanos]

Yeah, it’s a good shot, but...just didn’t do it for me.

Yeh over all his was another pure Charisma build which meant it needed a patch job to make warlords have decent history skill and similar things and in general it didnt cover the feel of the tactical warlord as much as Mike Mearls happy fun time tactiction did. (*and Mearls idea wasn't a full class)
Third party contributions have been alright some were however just attempts to direct ummm clone up the 4e one and none I think do service to what it could be. When Tony Vargas mentions that 5e actually has flexibility that could do a better Warlord than 4e I think maybe yes maybe no... but there is more to the Warlord than even what 4e offered.

I mostly meant what a 5e full class Warlord would feel like once it has its subclass and all that.

Ah different kettle of fish. The 5e multiclassing is often a huge nerf bat waiting to happen issue.

If you wanted to make the "command" features more powerful, you would have to weaken the character in other ways - maybe d8 hit dice

I am assuming the class or subclass is more MAD. So if 2 points that would have gone into a fighters con gets diverted into Intelligence wisdom or charisma... that already has that impact.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I am assuming the subclass is more MAD. So if 2 points that would have gone into a fighters con gets diverted into Intelligence wisdom or charisma... that already has that impact.

Doesn't work. PDK isn't more MAD, and even if you came up with something else that made use of different attributes, the player doesn't have to invest in them - point buy would let you have an INT of 14, say, and still max out STR and CON, making you a fully functional fighter with only marginally below maximum warlordness.

I play an EK with an INT of 14, and can fight perfectly well without worrying about MAD.

 

[Garthanos]

The main difference is really in the culture of play that has developed.

The very first thing that intrigued me about 4e was the presentation of a lame monk that a player built using a reskinned hammer wielding dwarf ranger. Then I found out they separated flavor text from power functional descriptions.

 

[Garthanos]

Doesn't work. PDK isn't more MAD, and even if you came up with something else that made use of different attributes, the player doesn't have to invest in them - point buy would let you have an INT of 14, say, and still max out STR and CON, making you a fully functional fighter with marginally below maximum warlordness.

I play an EK with an INT of 14,

What if your spell number was inhibited notably by not having better intelligence or conversely from your point of view enhanced greatly.

and can fight perfectly well without worrying about MAD.

The class has be designed with Intelligence/Wisdom/Charisma as very valuable. You have to make the other attribute just as important to to being functionally warlording as the Con is for that fighter and tie attributes to that Warlordness. Then to be uber fighter they end up meh Warlord or meh Swordmage.