D&D 5E The whip needs love.(updated last time)

[Giant2005]

I think what you are describing is a little too powerful. Whips aren't all that bad as they are really - my first character used one, although his reasons were because I was adding a little more realism to the game. I decided that while mounted on a large creature, I would need a reach weapon o be able to target small or smaller creatures on the ground, so a whip was necessary (that isn't actually a rule, it is just logical). Still, the whip's extra reach was more than enough to compensate for the slightly reduced damage and the damage really is only slightly reduced - never think otherwise. With Duelist and a +5 ability modifier, you are looking at only of an average 1.5 damage deficit per attack against AC 18, compared to the Rapier. That isn't enough to be concerned about and it certainly isn't enough to warrant a free supercharged trip rider.

If you feel the need to offer more compensation for that 1.5 damage other than just the extra reach, then just make that reach count for more. Given them the ability to grapple and trip people with the extra range rather than just 5'. If that isn't enough, allow them to do so with Dexterity (Athletics) checks when using a whip, or even Dexterity (Acrobatics) checks if that still makes sense to you.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

How many times did Indiana actually use the whip as a killing weapon, rather than just a tool?

Probably never, because, despite being a scoundrel-type, Dr. Jones is also a hero--very much "white what's got grubby" rather than true grey. If he's fighting someone with intent to kill, he'll shoot--and usually in a nice quick-kill spot like heart or head, not a slow and painful death like the stomach.

The only scenes I can remember where the whip is used as an actual weapon, it's mostly used to inflict pain, not to seriously injure. However, we can assume that, if the whip is allowed to be a true weapon in D&D as it is, it actually can do enough damage to really hurt.

And, as PnPgamer noted, whips are often associated with being chains or even very long-chained, mace-headed flails. Then you have games like La Mulana, where Prof. Lemeza (an Action Archaeologist like Dr. Jones) uses a whip that upgrades to a chain whip and then a mace-headed flail.

 

[MDragonG]

I think what you are describing is a little too powerful.... That isn't enough to be concerned about and it certainly isn't enough to warrant a free supercharged trip rider.

I am suggesting a feat not a just cause this is a whip you get this.

 

[Giant2005]

I am suggesting a feat not a just cause this is a whip you get this.

My bad. That is a perfectly serviceable feat you have there - it trades Shield Master's defensive benefits for the option of disarming with a bonus action, expertise on the shove/disarm, and the ability to do it at range. The +1 Dexterity might be a bit much though as the straight swap of Shield Master's defensive benefits for expertise seems fairly reasonable and shield master itself doesn't get an ability boost.

 

[MDragonG]

My bad. That is a perfectly serviceable feat you have there - it trades Shield Master's defensive benefits for the option of disarming with a bonus action, expertise on the shove/disarm, and the ability to do it at range. The +1 Dexterity might be a bit much though as the straight swap of Shield Master's defensive benefits for expertise seems fairly reasonable and shield master itself doesn't get an ability boost.

If you go by most feats in the PHB points two and three should be one point and look like this.

+1 Dexterity (to a max of 20)

While using a whip you make attempt a trip or disarm attempt as a bonus action when you successfully hit with an attack. Also while attempting a trip or disarm add 2x your proficiancy bonus to the attempt. (normal trip/disarm rules apply)


The whip counts as a tool.

This change puts it more inline with attribute granting feats

 

[Giant2005]

There is a more direct comparison with the Shield Master feat as they both share the bonus action trip effect.

Taking out the like-minded ability, you have these variables to compare:

+1 Dex, the ability to use a bonus action to disarm an opponent, and expertise on disarm/trip attacks.

Vs

If you aren’t incapacitated, you can add your shield’s AC bonus to any Dexterity saving throw you make against a spell or other harmful effect that targets only you.
If you are subjected to an effect that allows you to make a Dexterity saving throw to take only half damage you can use your reaction to take no damage if you succeed on the saving throw, interposing your shield between yourself and the source of the effect.

If you think that those variables are balanced with one another, that is fine but I personally don't. Either way, I'm not really trying to convince you of anything, I am just pointing out the most direct comparison that should be made - what you conclude from that comparison is entirely up to you.

 

[MDragonG]

Don't forget to add the shove component to shield master also.

I'm not saying they are equal there are a lot of feats that are not equal though.

 

[Shadowdweller00]

The only scenes I can remember where the whip is used as an actual weapon, it's mostly used to inflict pain, not to seriously injure. However, we can assume that, if the whip is allowed to be a true weapon in D&D as it is, it actually can do enough damage to really hurt.

Of course, that's kind of the main purpose of the whip and variants (aside perhaps from creating loud noises for purpose of intimidating animals). The whip DID certainly did see use amongst humanity...for purposes such as intimidation, riot control, punishment, "training"; just not as a battlefield weapon. Along those lines, I suppose one might create a feat granting advantage on intimidation checks when used; as well as something like a chance to cause fear or the poisoned condition (representing inflicted pain) in the victim as a bonus action for a round or so.

 

[Ralif Redhammer]

I've seen the whip be pretty effective in the hands of a Battlemaster Fighter. The lunge move gives it, what, 15' range?

 

[lowkey13]

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