D&D 5E The word ‘Race’

Status
Not open for further replies.
Nevertheless, race doesnt mean ‘subspecies’ in D&D. For example, if the Human race is a subspecies, the game lacks mentioning the wider species that the Human is a part of. Moreover, the D&D term ‘subrace’ would be equivalent to a ‘sub-subspecies’, which is moreorless a nonsense category. So, D&D isnt using a reallife definition of ‘race’.
I disagree with this assertion. Humans, Elves, and Orcs are very clearly of the same species, since they frequently inter-breed and produce viable offspring. It might be a bit anthropocentric in its terminology, but you could say that there is a Human species of which Humans, Elves, and Orcs are all sub-species.

That's (more-or-less) the way Shadowrun deals with it, and they also mention how the word has changed definition between its historical usage and its modern/fantasy usage. They mention how nobody cares about skin color or anything like that, but plenty of people are racist against Orks and Trolls, which fits with the dystopian cyberpunk setting.

And sub-sub-species is nothing weird at all. It's like differentiating people pit bulls and chihuahuas, which have very different physical traits in spite of belong to the same familiaris sub-species of canis lupus.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Galendril

Explorer
Ironically, I just ran a session focused on the cult of Wastri attempting to take over a local city by stoking racism towards demi-humans. At first the group started by calling them racists, but clearly the cult had no beef with other human races (i.e. Flam, Suloise, Oeridian, etc). So, instead the table just referred them them as bigots which felt more natural to us.
 

MG.0

First Post
Let's just go back to calling every playable race that isn't human a demi-human.

That's much better. :p
 

Mephista

Adventurer
Yaarel, I think you're overthinking things. In real life, race refers to distinct groups of people that share similar physical traits. That is your real world definition of race that's applying to D&D races. It can be the human/elf/dwarf races, it can be national ethnicities that share a common pheonotype, etc. Racism is discrimination based on those common phenotypes.

Now, then, D&D absolutely DOES include fantasy racism, even for the humans. First, there ARE several sub-races of humans mentioned in the core - they use the ones from Faerun, but its there. And you can bet that there will be stereotypes and racism basded on those human types (or do you think someone who looks like they're from Thay won't be discriminated against, or feared?) As well, tieflings and half-orcs generally are part of human society (tieflings especially can be 90% human but appear as a tiefling), and they absolutely are the target of racism from other humanoids. Then, take a look at how everyone sees orcs and goblins, the racial wars between light and dark elves, and more. And that's not a bad thing if you want to explore metaphors for racism; fantasy is good with metaphors.

That line about elves and dwarves just makes the fantasy racism more poignant. If you're showing harmful stereotypes towards someone that's human-like, doesnt' that resonate with real life racism?


As well, I think you're confusing with "human enough so that players can relate to" to being actual humans. You naturally MUST have the former, because its very difficult to play an alien mindset, and down right impossible for many. However, that doesn't mean that we should consider them human from an in game perspective.
 

Mephista

Adventurer
As well, the term "race" has grown beyond D&D. Its used in a wide variety of places - just about any fantasy or science fiction novel, game, or show uses it. Its become the default nomenclature. And its not even really an offensive term in this use. Words can have multiple meanings, depending on the context, and this particular context isn't particularly offensive.
 

Paraxis

Explorer
What I would love is if political correctness and social justice warrior ideas just stayed as far away from my favorite hobby as it can.

Mod Note: Folks, let's leave the real-world political commentary in Off-topic threads marked as such, please. ~Umbran

I don't want books about a fantasy world to be bothered with making people uncomfortable. Use race as a term, have slavery of said different races, include drow elves, women in chainmail bikini armor, and so on... and so on.... this is a game about magical worlds of fantasy leave our modern sensibilities at the door.

I think my next character will be a woman hating super religious dwarf with a bad scottish accent (also he will be a parody of the drunk irishman trope) who is also a racist and has a dark elf slave girl on a chain.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

aramis erak

Legend
The biological definition of subspecies includes viable offspring. This makes Elves and Orcs, at least, within the same genus, and probably species, as humans.

Plus, at the time D&D was originally written, references to "The Human Race" were widely used, especially in fantasy and sci fi. (Still are, to some degree).

Tolkien himself uses race for describing the kindreds of Dwarves ("race of dwarves", Hobbit, 138; "“of the race of Durin”, Hobbit, 462, 472, ), Eagles ("ancient race of the northern mountains" Hobbit, 257), Goblins ("Ever since the fall of the Great Goblin of the Misty Mountains the hatred of their race for the dwarves" Hobbit, 631)

However, he also refers to various human populations... "race of Dale." (Hobbit 597), the Númenoreans ("The race of the Kings from over the Sea is nearly at an end.", Fellowship of the Ring, 782; also 859), the Riders of Rohan (Fellowship, council of elrond, Boromir speaking of those of the riddermark.)

I could go on, but suffice it to say, use of Race for species is a Tolkienism and more, and from that root it spreads outward; that root, however, appears to grow out of the outmoded and defunct eugenics theories of the late 19th and early 20th Centuries.

From these lofty literary origins does it invade RPGs, via the first RPG being infused with its code of race as species.
 

MG.0

First Post
I think my next character will be a woman hating super religious dwarf with a bad scottish accent (also he will be a parody of the drunk irishman trope) who is also a racist and has a dark elf slave girl on a chain.

You mean a typical dwarf? Why not something original... :cool:
 


I'm A Banana

Potassium-Rich
No, race is a lot more than just social construct. For example, your health could be strongly effected by racial predispositions. Some of us are more likely to become diabetic if we don't watch our complex carbs, others are more prone to develop food allergies that could lead to colitis or other inflammatory ailments. Some of us, I've discovered, are more attractive to mosquitos.

Health can be affected by your genetics, which is not the same thing as race.

This is interesting reading on the topic, or here if you lean more academic about it.

Hemlock said:
One fun thing to do with variant humans is to assign each feat to a race in-game. You could say that Cimmerians are Tough while Hyperboreans are Magic Initiates and Machakans are slender and Mobile and Valerians are famous for being Heavy Armor Masters. It makes more sense to me than "I'm human so I randomly develop favorable traits at first level," plus it allows people to visually identify some of your capabilities. I don't always do it when I make a variant human, but I do it sometimes.

Fantasy ain't reality, but stuff like this is close enough to actually problematic things that it runs a significant risk of nuking my make believe elf fun times pretty hard. It's one of the reasons I've got troubles with enjoying The Elder Scrolls series, and why I'm always a little nervous around stuff that takes a big inspiration from REH's work. When you deal with humans, it's too easy to (even accidentally) move from archetype to stereotype, and it takes a very careful and clever hand to avoid that, ESPECIALLY when working with fantasy versions of real-world cultures, so it's not something I generally touch with a 10-foot pole. Even when you deal with non-humans, it can be a challenge (Here's a trick: look at 2e-era gnomes through the eyes of an anti-semite, and do your best not to wince! Little wrinkled people who love gems and have long noses and specialize in trickery, lies and deceit...).

Which is part of why I'd prefer the mechanics divorced from biology. I don't want to truck in Granddad Lovecraft's Thanksgiving Rants, but I like the idea of belonging to a fantasy culture or inhuman heroic group. I think there are ways to get at fantasy culture or fantasy species that don't rely so much on defining what you are, at a biological level, and I'd prefer something like expanded backgrounds or better affiliation rules to designate that over "race."

Like, being a dwarf or a Cimmerian might define some of the things you learned early on in life, some of your friends and allies, maybe what you can initially do, but it's an additive thing that doesn't define what you are (like with ability scores). I mean sure, maybe my Cimmerian warlock isn't getting a lot of mileage out of that Athletics proficiency, but you just don't get to be 13 in Cimmeria without getting in a few brawls, and this is something that gives you an edge when you're compared to a pampered Hyperborean warlock. That, and all your barbarian friends, and your ability to use a sword without getting winded. That makes you "tough," but it's what you know and what you can do, not what you ARE, physically.

The more inhuman fantasy races have a little more leeway there, of course. A centaur or a four-armed gorilla-person should probably define what you are physically more than being a dwarf (ie, "a short, round, human") does.
 
Last edited:

Status
Not open for further replies.
Remove ads

Top