Things I dislike about Dragon Mag.

[mkarol]

D&D is more than a game.

Without a gaming context? No.

The point I was trying to make with my previous post is that "D&D" encompasses more than just a 'game.' Dragon supports "D&D" ("100% Official Dungeons & Dragons" as it says on the cover). While most of us would agree that the RPG is the most important part of the "D&D" world(s), the remaining elements are important (in varying degrees) to fans of the hobby. (to recap, those other elements include, but are not limited to, novels, movies, comics, tv shows…)

I think you could enjoy the D&D novels without playing the game (well, at least some of the better ones). I think you could enjoy the movie (if it had been even slightly good imho) without playing the game. You can enjoy the CRPG without ever touching dice. And you can enjoy D&D related fiction without needing to see stat blocks, feat breakdowns, and character classes for the participants.

I think it would be appropriate for _Dragon_ to publish articles on sales figures of D&D, new product reviews, interviews with game designers, discussions of how D&D influenced "X" in modern society or whatever... because I do not want to see just fluff and crunch in the magazine (I would buy supplements). I want the entire hobby with its many fingers touched on. Obviously a "State of D&D" issue that held nothing for the RPG would bomb, but devoting 10-20% of the magazine to things other than the actual 4 hours we sit around the gaming table is not a bad thing, to me.

 

[jdavis]

But I think you are getting me wrong here -- so I want to clear this up. I am not always just talking about a stat blurb. IMagine this: give me a 5 page story in DRAGON. It is a fantasy story. It is fair to above average writing. Now, follow this up with notes on how such a sequence of events might happen in my D&D game (such as how to maintain the seperation of knowledge that the players might need to have for the mystery to pan out well, or how the players can roll-play the "gather information roll" that leads to the events described in the story or what-have-you.

I am not stating that all fiction needs rules top be on-topic in DRAGON magazine -- I am stating that all fiction requires a gaming context (what-ever that might be) to be on topic in DRAGON magazine.

Does all of that make sense?

PS: No, you are not being an ass. At least not im my opinion. We are just having a friendly discussion and/or debate last I checked.

I would like to see the same things done, the only difference I guess is that I don't have a problem with the fiction as is. I'd like to see what you think it requires but just don't think it is a required fix.

I like the theme issues and I would like to see fiction that fits into the book theme, but I don't have a subscription I only buy the issues that interest me, if you have a subscription I can understand a dislike of theme issues as you may get a issue that has nothing in it for you. Does that make theme issues good or bad? It's all subjective to the person involved.

I was picking on your post (perhaps unfairly) but the thing is that there has been so many Dragon Magazine bashing post lately and the only point anybody seems to make is that because they don't like a part of the magazine then that part has to go. Heck I've seen people say they like the Silicon Sorcery sections and if some people like a section then it does have some value in the book. You will not like every section of every magazine, it's a given, that doesn't make that section universally worthless. There is a difference between a statement of dislike and a statement that something has no value, a lot of people seem to be missing that point.

I have a question on this also, I was under the impression that the fiction is a occasional thing and not a every issue thing, I don't have a subscription so I don't get every issue, but I thought the fiction was only something they did occasionally. I don't remember there being any fiction in issue 300 for example.

 

[Kamard]

There are D&D movies (well, there was one...).

No there wasn't. Don't make me remember that, for the love of god.

Anyway, I usually ignore the fiction pieces. Dragon is the only magazine I subscribe to, and I have to admit I loved the latest fic piece, and I also love the series Dr. Ben Bova was doing some time ago.

 

[Mathew_Freeman]

For me, Dragon is something I read from cover to cover pretty much every time it comes out. Including the fiction.

But on the flip side of that, anything I don't like after a couple of paragraphs I stop reading, and sad to say a lot of the fiction has been like that recently...

But I think it's very useful. Apart from just the random idea generator that stories can be, there is also the matter of just increasing my fantasy knowledge, trying out things, learning.

I think the fiction in Dragon does have a context - it is a fiction story set in a fantasy world based on some of the same unspoken rules (wizards exist, the gods are real, powerful people interfere in other peoples lives etc) that D&D uses.

And besides, Dragon magazine isn't about rules all the time. It is, for me, about ideas and thoughts that other people are having, whether they be parrying rules, advice on running big combats, 1000 martial arts moves generators or whatever. It's a big melting pot of exciting ideas, sparks and moments that hopefully enhance your games.

[deep breath]

That may be one of the longest posts I've ever made.

 

[Outergod]

What I was trying to say...

...is that there's nothing wrong with using fiction as a source for adventure ideas. There are approximately 30 metric tons of fiction novel in the library, at the bookstore and (in my case) in my bedroom. There are also numerous mags devoted to fiction. This is why I'm questioning the need to include fiction in Dragon. How many other things could they include in Dragon to spark ideas that relate to DnD in a more rules-oriented way (or...something like that...you know what I'm trying to say).

The point is that there's plenty of fiction outside Dragon mag but there's not plenty of Dragon mag outside of Dragon mag.

Ok...I can live with the fluff articles. You folks have convinced me that they have a place.

Outergod

 

[francisca]

I don't care for the fiction myself. That said, lots of people do, and it isn't published explicitly for francisca, so I really can't complain. Looking back over the years, it looks like this topic of fiction in Dragon rears it's head about every year or so. Looks like that will continue.

However, I do have something to complain about. I subscribed for a year, right after 3E came out. 2 months into my subscription, I started getting letters stating something like: "last chance to re-subscribe, your subscription is almost over". That annoyed the hell out of me. Partly because I felt like I was getting the hard sell, when only 1/6 of my subscription had been received, but also because other magazines (Dungeon and national geographic, for example) started doing the same thing. Somebody must have put on a seminar on how "to increase your circulation through premature re-ups" or somethng like that. I e-mailed and complained, and did not renew either Dragon or Dungeon. It wasn't just Dragon/Dungeon who were guilty, but just 'cause someone else jumped in a lake.....

I recently resubscribed. Shortly thereafter, I saw the Wilson post calling those who complained about the d20 annual "whiners". That I do not like that one bit. I wish I had not subscribed after reading that. Categorizing your readership like that is insulting.

While I don't hate it, I can certainly do without the Living Greyhawk stuff.

What I do like:
1) the comics, especially the punchline contest
2) about half of the crunch
3) about half of the fluff
4) the articles in the back which help out with world building

 

[jester47]

Their fulfillment house blows chuncks on the customer service side.

The only other complaint that I have is that there is not real way to organise the articles after they are in my collection. I forget I have stuff and then when I am looking for somthing else I find it and say "Doh!"

On the good end I liked 300 - 304 tremendously. However I think cutting some of thier regular stuff to fit Martin in 305 was a bad call. I felt that this last issue did not give me as much. Still it had some useful things that I can drop into my campaign. The city of the planes is a great idea, and the Yuan Ti article was pretty good.

One thing I want them to keep up is the battelmaps! Now if they just did some wilderness settings, roads, deserts plaines, arctic woods, rough rocky land, hill country, we would be all good.

Aaron.

 

[Mallus]

Pardon me for chiming in...

I have indicated that I have found adventure ideas on candy wrappers. This means that the candy wrapper was a useful item in my roleplaying. However, an article discussing the history of candy wrappers in DRAGON would be (imho, ymmv, yadda yadda yadda) a complete waste of space -- unless it also included a context for how this could be used in a game.

Does that make it more clear?

...but that's just silly. KD, are you saying that because you found game inspiration from a candy wrapper that there exists an equivalent level of correllation between candy wrappers and gaming and fantasy fiction and gaming?

I think the salient point being made is that there is a long-standing relationship between the fiction and games. The Dragon has run fiction as long as I can remember. There's always been a small place for non-crunchy narrative/flavor content.

I think jdavis established the context in which the fiction is used.

Also the Dragon used to run reviews of SF/F books and computer games. Don't they still? I've always assumed this kind of material to be of general interest to gamers, and important to gamers as sources of inspiration.

 

[WizarDru]

Personally, I like the fiction, though I don't read it that often, if ever. Comparing Women's Day to Dragon is really an apples to oranges comparison, IMHO. Women's Day is a magazine whose focus is on issues for women and their daily lives, and how "the modern woman lives her life." Dragon is a magazine about a specific game in a specific hobby. Women's day has a broad focus on a wide variety of topics, Dragon is far more focused.

The game, Dungeons & Dragons, is very heavily influenced by a set of seminal fantasy fiction. The influences of Fritz Leiber, Michael Moorcock, J. R. R. Tolkien, Robert E. Howard and Jack Vance cannot be ignored. D&D is a heavily influenced by fiction. Things like the Cloak of Elvenkind, the PC races or the magic system all have their origins in popular fiction. Simply put, D&D (and by extension, Dragon) has a much closer tie to fantasy fiction.

Would I be greatly upset if it went away? Not really. I can understand why some feel it doesn't belong, or that it is a length of pages that they would see used otherwise. For myself, I see it both as a nice benefit, and a way to both expose me to new material as well as enhance the magazine.

 

[EricNoah]

Re: Pardon me for chiming in...

Also the Dragon used to run reviews of SF/F books and computer games. Don't they still?

Nope.

My take on the issue is ... I don't read the fiction, with a few exceptions. But I definitely think it has a place in a fantasy gaming magazine like Dragon.